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Lumpy Talbot

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Are there any .... Americans here?

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Sweet Darling

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I quite appreciate the wild fantasies the Irish people have had to endure over defence spending but if you support Scottish independence that can all be brought to a positive end.

An independent Scotland would bring 8 off shore patrol vessels to our alliance and two flights of six mach 2.0 for under 40 million a year each typically a flight is six aircraft
Plus their share of the UKs national debt. they will not be able to afford run 4 generation aircraft
 

ringobrodgar

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Plus their share of the UKs national debt. they will not be able to afford run 4 generation aircraft
Ah I see we are still thinking in unitary terms neither country can afford it alone but cooperating we can. Your also forgetting that a huge chunk of that debt is
quantitative easing about 30% which we wouldn't be taking cos if we did they could just cancel the bonds and leave us holding the debt baby.
In any case Hungary GDP $157 billion operates a full squadron of JAS Gripen for 75 million per year.

Ireland is not a vassal state but those Irishman that refuse to defend its waters and its airspace compromise its sovereignty and Scots who think likewise would do the same for Scottish sovereignty. This is not my opinion alone many on these boards agree. Sovereignty matters and that is not vanity!
 

irishmaninsalem

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I did the numbers and Ireland can afford Jet Fighters, no need to beg for help from the Brits or Yanks or even the Scottish if they get Independence.
From Irish Aid - Wikipedia as of 2017, Ireland gave €651 million in Aid.
Most of it went to

So from Wikipedia (not the most trustworthy site, but it will do)
I looked at the different countries Air forces of the " Partner Countries"
I ignored jets labeled as Multi-role or light attack.
Malawi, Sierra Leone and Lesotho have no Jet fighters.
Ugandan has the least Jet Fighters at 5
Vietnam has the most at 44 (including fighter-bomber jets)(Commie Feckers)

So, indirectly Ireland is subsidizing Jet Fighters in other Countries and can afford to buy some at home.
 

ringobrodgar

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I did the numbers and Ireland can afford Jet Fighters, no need to beg for help from the Brits or Yanks or even the Scottish if they get Independence.
From Irish Aid - Wikipedia as of 2017, Ireland gave €651 million in Aid.
Most of it went to

So from Wikipedia (not the most trustworthy site, but it will do)
I looked at the different countries Air forces of the " Partner Countries"
I ignored jets labeled as Multi-role or light attack.
Malawi, Sierra Leone and Lesotho have no Jet fighters.
Ugandan has the least Jet Fighters at 5
Vietnam has the most at 44 (including fighter-bomber jets)(Commie Feckers)

So, indirectly Ireland is subsidizing Jet Fighters in other Countries and can afford to buy some at home.
Hi direct from Irish aid Total Official Development Assistance: €743.42 million 2017 underlining your point
 

Dame_Enda

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I think our armed forces have been in the poorhouse for generations. So much so that it has gone beyond poor equipment to stories of them living on navy ships because their salaries arent sufficient to pay rent or mortgages.
 

ringobrodgar

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I think our armed forces have been in the poorhouse for generations. So much so that it has gone beyond poor equipment to stories of them living on navy ships because their salaries arent sufficient to pay rent or mortgages.
Even more of a reason to have a defence partner the agreement would specify a minimum spend for the two governments. HMS illustrious used to park in a west coast loch(loch Long) in Scotland plenty of the sailors lived aboard as you can imagine the scenery would be wonderful.
 

SeanMac

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I would be curious to know what the personnel numbers are in the Aer Corps,especially with regard to the upper ranks.I have a sneaking suspicion that Baldonnel is heaving with commandants, colonels,and Lieutenant colonels.How many aircraft are there,how many pilots and how often do they actually fly?A member of the army i know referred to Casement aerodrome as the Ryanair training school.
 

ringobrodgar

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Even more of a reason to have a defence partner the agreement would specify a minimum spend for the two governments. HMS illustrious used to park in a west coast loch(loch Long) in Scotland plenty of the sailors lived aboard as you can imagine the scenery would be wonderful.
The thing I have noticed is that when Ireland suffers a corrupt stitch up its usually so well hidden that it takes years or decades for the truth to come out the aer corps may be an example of that. Ireland still suffers from the consequences of corruption incidents that happened 20 or 30 years ago
 

Lumpy Talbot

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The People's Republic of Cork found an old U-Boat some years back and I never saw any mention of what they did with it. Probably fixed it up in a shed and a slap of paint and the PRC has its own submarine capability.

They are out there now, bai, like wooluffs. Sea-wooluffs.
 

cozzy121

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IAC-PC-12-1-620x350.jpg


The Irish Air Corps are expected to take delivery of three new Pilatus PC-12 Spectre aircraft later this week. The three aircraft have been based at the Pilatus facility located at Rocky Mountain Metropolitan Airport outside Denver, Colorado since February 2019. They were delivered here from the Pilatus factory in Switzerland to be fitted out with their mission equipment and testing.

The three aircraft took off within minutes of each other yesterday from their temporary home heading for Burlington, Vermont where they landed after a flight of almost five hours. Following an overnight stop they continued on to Goose Bay in Newfoundland for another overnight stop off before the Atlantic crossing. They are scheduled to continue on to Iceland on Wednesday and then make the final journey to their new home in Baldonnel on Thursday. The three aircraft have been carrying US civil registrations for the duration of the time while in Colorado. N280NG, N281NG and N282NG are the markings and they were expected to take up 280, 281 and 282 respectively on arrival with the Irish Air Corps. However, with the acquisition of an extra Pilatus PC-12, 280, last April, this will now mean one aircraft will become 283.
 

omgsquared

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Ireland needs to do more to ensure its sovereignty. The most glaring gaps are in regard to our maritime area where no one really knows what resources are present n, what may be found and how this may be disputed in years to come. We need a larger and more effective naval service.
As regards policing our air space, there is a need to be able to show the flag and police it ,( Limited intercept capacity )but any ideas of maintaining air superiority in the event of outright hostilities would be impossible. Some innovative thinking such as leasing purchasing options with countries such as Finland could be considered.
As regards the army It needs to get away from the over conventional war mindset and concentrate on coin type training with creative approaches to training and equipment and defense . Examples would be training people in IED use etc so that in the event of an armed invasion teh csot to hold would be too high etc.
Anyway before all of that the DF in general has to gain some operational independence from the DoD, It also has to get rid of its top heavy officer Victorian era style officer corps and appreciate that its primary role is to defend the state, to close and neutralize the enemy and not peace keeping for the UN.
 

NMunsterman

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Ireland needs to do more to ensure its sovereignty. The most glaring gaps are in regard to our maritime area where no one really knows what resources are present n, what may be found and how this may be disputed in years to come. We need a larger and more effective naval service.
As regards policing our air space, there is a need to be able to show the flag and police it ,( Limited intercept capacity )but any ideas of maintaining air superiority in the event of outright hostilities would be impossible. Some innovative thinking such as leasing purchasing options with countries such as Finland could be considered.
As regards the army It needs to get away from the over conventional war mindset and concentrate on coin type training with creative approaches to training and equipment and defense . Examples would be training people in IED use etc so that in the event of an armed invasion teh csot to hold would be too high etc.
Anyway before all of that the DF in general has to gain some operational independence from the DoD, It also has to get rid of its top heavy officer Victorian era style officer corps and appreciate that its primary role is to defend the state, to close and neutralize the enemy and not peace keeping for the UN.

Definitely agree with that.
Increased military cooperation with the likes of Sweden and Finland, for example, would be a very welcome and positive move.



Finland is currently in the process of purchasing new fighter planes for it's Air Force to replace the 60+ F-18's it has now.
 

ringobrodgar

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Still think Ireland's best option is to convince an indy Scotland to retain a QRA a ten-year leasing deal for 14 Jas Gripen would be around 100 million. When not contributing to the Baltic air police(usually 4 aircraft) Scotland could contribute the same number to Ireland for a minimal fee.

Alternatively, Scotland and Ireland could ask for their own Celtic air police mission from NATO
 

rainmaker

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Still think Ireland's best option is to convince an indy Scotland to retain a QRA a ten-year leasing deal for 14 Jas Gripen would be around 100 million. When not contributing to the Baltic air police(usually 4 aircraft) Scotland could contribute the same number to Ireland for a minimal fee.

Alternatively, Scotland and Ireland could ask for their own Celtic air police mission from NATO
Ireland is not a NATO country, and not under any immediate threat to warrant such a costly mission.
 

omgsquared

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Ireland is not a NATO country, and not under any immediate threat to warrant such a costly mission.
The problem is that when an immediate threat arises a country will not have the time or resources in places to respond to that threat. I do not think we are taking about billions but why are borrowing to spend we spending 1bn a year on foreign aid on aid to countries who already have an air defense capacity. Another thread.??
One only has to look at the outbreak of the troubles in 1969 when lack of investment and/or a lack of realistic govt policy led to a DF with almost nothing in place. As an example Jimmy Shevlins Taxi had to be hired to bring soldiers to check[points outside Dundalk in the early 70s. It was only the dedication of a soldiers who had to live at that time in sub human conditions, operate with useless equipment etc , and put up with a lot of Sh.. who provided a presence ..... Of course we are not referring here about the Orrcifers in Raj style Mckee..
Also lack of this asset also limited Govt policy options at that time..
 

rainmaker

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Irish neutrality has always had compromises the partnership for peace is one. A new EU air police might be a viable alternative
An 'EU air police' would be A), nothing to do with NATOn as the EU does not control NATO and B), impossible without unified EU foreign & defence policies.
 

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