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Does Ireland need two political parties: left AND right?


Congalltee

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Nov 10, 2009
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6,211
There's talk of a new political party. Plenty of talk. But there still appears to be an absence of ideology in anything which is positioning itself to be a political party.

The key issues are:
- what expenditure of GNP should government spending be?
- should the State subsidise private education or support it?
- how many tiers should our health system have? Public plus payment, medical card, private health insurance, cash/abroad?
- what diverge should there be between public sector contracts of emit meant and the rights of those in the private sector?
- what should put relationship be with the EU?
- neutrality?
- the ratio between corporate tax and income tax?
- is it the business of government to redistribute wealth?
- the euro?
- united Ireland a pipedream or means to an end?
- personal rights v common good.

There is no political party which would divide between left/right, libertarian/conservative, 26/Republican on all of these issues.
 

james5001

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Oct 27, 2009
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We're actually lucky that in the 70's and 80's Civil War politics existed, with no Left-Right divide. Otherwise we would've seen what happened in Britain and the US.
We have a greater degree of democracy as a result I think.
 

Mattarigna

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Oct 20, 2012
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We're actually lucky that in the 70's and 80's Civil War politics existed, with no Left-Right divide. Otherwise we would've seen what happened in Britain and the US.
We have a greater degree of democracy as a result I think.
Really? How was democracy being served by having two major parties that was on the same page on over 90% of all issues?
 

an innocent abroad

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I hate the right and left or the wing brigade... it shows more about the poster who uses those boxes to try and limit other posters who disagree with them, but rather shows up their limitations and the small box they inhabit by trying to bring everybody down to their level!
 

R3volution_R3ady

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A party that won't get themselves into debt or balloon the deficit. For this you need principled people with a keen and savvy eye when it comes to economics. Not any old crowd pleasers will do. No "one for everybody in the audience" type economics.

A party of low tax, low spending.
A party that doesn't criminalise victimless crimes.

That would be a real change.
 

hiding behind a poster

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The Irish people are overwhelmingly centrist, hence it follows that our main political parties are centrist too.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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The Irish people are overwhelmingly centrist, hence it follows that our main political parties are centrist too.
I'd substitute "conservative" for "centrist". The Irish are largly conservative because they have been browbeaten by British & church rule and, as a result, many of our brightest & more adventurist have emigrated.
 
B

Boggle

Get rid of all political parties and let people stand on their own beliefs instead of some manufactured slogans.
 

R3volution_R3ady

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I'd substitute "conservative" for "centrist". The Irish are largly conservative because they have been browbeaten by British & church rule and, as a result, many of our brightest & more adventurist have emigrated.
I agree. I think our radicals or anyone with a bit of vision get the first plane out of here.
 

farnaby

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There's talk of a new political party. Plenty of talk. But there still appears to be an absence of ideology in anything which is positioning itself to be a political party.
The supposed new entrants to the political party scene are all process. They talk of things like creating a space for "public debate", "frameworks" for this that and the other, and in the case of Direct Democracy referendum after referendum to let the people decide. Reform is absolutely necessary but it is not anywhere near the complete answer.
 

Keith-M

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www.allkindsofeverything.ie
Left and right may have been useful division in the 19th sand 20th century but post Thatcher, old style left politics is really only a group of nutters on the fringe.

Today's issues are things like where power should reside between the individual and the state and the state and the EU.
 

cathalrh

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Mar 7, 2011
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Get rid of all political parties and let people stand on their own beliefs instead of some manufactured slogans.
I like that idea, but the act of forming a party-like group can be advantageous to a set of individuals with political aspirations whether it's done in the open or secret and we know how prohibitions on voluntary interactions tend to work out. Human naturally form teams and follow causes.

When we are forming a natively digital system of government (and we're far behind schedule; the old analog* system is banjaxed), we must acknowledge the ability of individuals to conspire secretly whether we like it or not. Would it not be more rational to disempower parties by denying them the ability to publicly bind members then to empower them by forcing them underground?

Finally, there's little reason to bind political parties to a particular landmass. In many respects I have more interests in common with people of my age and culture than with people who happen to have been born on the same landmass as I.
I acknowledge that many decisions can only be made by geographically bound individuals, but these are not the full set of collective decisions, and may well occupy a decreasing proportion of that set as time progresses.

The supposed new entrants to the political party scene are all process. They talk of things like creating a space for "public debate", "frameworks" for this that and the other, and in the case of Direct Democracy referendum after referendum to let the people decide. Reform is absolutely necessary but it is not anywhere near the complete answer.
Well expressed. Part of the issue is that I see very little benefit in creating another institution to be corrupted or another ideology to be forced down the throats of involuntary participants. We are finally reaching a point where we are technologically capable of making a serious effort at forming a paricipatory representative republic, with a constitution not grounded in millenia-old mythology.

We just have to want it.

EDIT:*Analog in the sense that information exchange occurred via exchange of physical tokens, and is often now digital simulations of physical tokens. Such systems inherit many of the weaknesses the the analog systems they are simulating (inflexibility, inaccuracy) while introducing digital vulnerabilities (high frequency trading, voter machine uncertainty). A well-designed digitally native system can employ digital strengths (verifiability, extremely high speed, accuracy and security) and employ modern solutions to digital weaknesses (decentralisation, heterogeneity)
 
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redsaint

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Jan 18, 2011
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Left and right may have been useful division in the 19th sand 20th century but post Thatcher, old style left politics is really only a group of nutters on the fringe.

Today's issues are things like where power should reside between the individual and the state and the state and the EU.
And who do you think has us were we are today,to me it was members of IBEC (or in other words members of the greedy gang)Your little right wing mind would blame the postman.
 

james5001

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Really? How was democracy being served by having two major parties that was on the same page on over 90% of all issues?
Democracy hasn't been eroded through privatisation which would have happened if a Reagan type person got elected.
 

james5001

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Oct 27, 2009
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Left and right may have been useful division in the 19th sand 20th century but post Thatcher, old style left politics is really only a group of nutters on the fringe.

Today's issues are things like where power should reside between the individual and the state and the state and the EU.
And the corporation.
 

james5001

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Oct 27, 2009
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11,503
A party that won't get themselves into debt or balloon the deficit. For this you need principled people with a keen and savvy eye when it comes to economics. Not any old crowd pleasers will do. No "one for everybody in the audience" type economics.

A party of low tax, low spending.
A party that doesn't criminalise victimless crimes.

That would be a real change.
Fundamentally, it wouldn't be real change at all.
 

james5001

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Oct 27, 2009
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