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Does Section 99 of the Charities Act 2009 presume there will be no second Reformation?


IbrahaimMohamad

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Feb 5, 2013
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Section 99 of the Charities Act 2009 is an extraordinary piece of law.

It effectively prohibits anyone from offering for sale a mass offering or mass card in respect of a celebrant who is not in full accord with the Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church.

Were any group of Priests, Bishops, or group including even Cardinals to leave the Roman Church under the dictatorial aged Pope however senile he might happen to be, in relation to a matter of conscience, in relation to any number of issues, which might range from the prohibition on married clergy, to the prohibition on female clergy, to the issue of contraception, gay marriage, abortion, divorce, etc the group would find themselves at odds with section 99 of the Charities Act 2009, even if the Group represented the majority of the Catholic clergy.

The State should not take sides between factions of clerics in any religion pronouncing a particular faction to have privileges in commerce which the State denies to the other faction.

Charities Act 2009, Section 99
 


ruserious

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I am now without any doubt whatsoever that your existance is based purely on coming up with the next rubbish thread you will make on this website.
 

borntorum

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May 26, 2008
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I am now without any doubt whatsoever that your existance is based purely on coming up with the next rubbish thread you will make on this website.
Yeah, is he a sock? There was some other poster here recently enough who started a load of nonsense threads
 

ruserious

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Yeah, is he a sock? There was some other poster here recently enough who started a load of nonsense threads
Bobcolebrooke and before him, Neutron. One and the same if you ask me.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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The State grants a monopoly to the licence-es of an elderly man and prohibits any dissenters from competition!
 

emulator

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Yeah, is he a sock? There was some other poster here recently enough who started a load of nonsense threads
Not the socks again !

I'm fully convinced some of these socks belong to Mods..... why else are they tolerated ?
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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The State only accepts that some priests can turn bread and wine into the flesh of god!
 

LamportsEdge

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Jan 10, 2012
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The state should never be involved in anything like this. Quite apart from the fact that the state managed to legislate apparently for a Charities Act in 2009 without it seems providing any regulatory oversight for one of the most blatant centres of corruption in Irish public life.

Where is this Charity Commission that was announced back in 2009-2010? It is now 2013 and the various cons, illicit funding of politics via the 'charity' sector, lack of regulation over some extraordinarily profitable little corners for various Irish 'social entrepreneurs' which requires much closer examination by the authorities.

It is extraordinary that the Irish state should involve itself in arranging a cartel for one cult via legislation while apparently walking straight past an absolute nest of unregulated 'fixes' in Irish public life.

There are over 7,000 'charities' registered with the Revenue Commissioners and an unknown number are anything but charities.
 

LamportsEdge

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It just shows the absolute obsequiousness and willingness to ignore the constitutional restriction on 'endowment' of any religion when you see rubbish like this from the cowardly pot-bellied Oireachtas.

Does the catholic church have files on these people or what?
 

Victor Meldrew

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7,172
The state should never be involved in anything like this. Quite apart from the fact that the state managed to legislate apparently for a Charities Act in 2009 without it seems providing any regulatory oversight for one of the most blatant centres of corruption in Irish public life.

Where is this Charity Commission that was announced back in 2009-2010? It is now 2013 and the various cons, illicit funding of politics via the 'charity' sector, lack of regulation over some extraordinarily profitable little corners for various Irish 'social entrepreneurs' which requires much closer examination by the authorities.

It is extraordinary that the Irish state should involve itself in arranging a cartel for one cult via legislation while apparently walking straight past an absolute nest of unregulated 'fixes' in Irish public life.

There are over 7,000 'charities' registered with the Revenue Commissioners and an unknown number are anything but charities.
Geeze lamport, way to go in reforming a horrendous sock puppet thread into a credible issue of national political importance.

Fair play or Damn you to hell....! petunia

The entire "charitable status" of many companies needs to be looked at.

In particular, there are several quangos, which receive substantial state funding, whose continued existence is wholly corrupt.

Established as a way to shut up a lobby group, using flawed, self serving "academic research" , and which serve merely to bestow a sense of "victimhood" on a section of society.

Civilised countries just legislate away issues, we make them "Causes" and ignore them, just throw the lobbyists money when they get bolshy.

But then, how else do you bribe your enemies.
 

asterix

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Dec 19, 2008
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The relevant section was not intended to ban, say, Greek Orthodox mass cards, if such things exist. It was meant to ban "trafficking" in Catholic mass cards. People felt it is OK to sell a card for a priest to say one mass, and OK to sell 100 cards for 10 priests to say 10 masses each, but not OK to sell 100 cards for one priest to say one mass for 100 intentions.

The High Court rejected a complaint from a business that bulk bought from a Malawi Catholic priest not in good standing; I suspect if the priest was Greek Orthodox the complaint would have been upheld on freedom-of-religion grounds.

Nevertheless I agree that the law is inappropriate. False advertising laws should suffice for the most egregious cases, and caveat emptor for the rest. The state has no business ruling which magic cards are legit and which are bogus.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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The relevant section was not intended to ban, say, Greek Orthodox mass cards, if such things exist. It was meant to ban "trafficking" in Catholic mass cards. People felt it is OK to sell a card for a priest to say one mass, and OK to sell 100 cards for 10 priests to say 10 masses each, but not OK to sell 100 cards for one priest to say one mass for 100 intentions.

The High Court rejected a complaint from a business that bulk bought from a Malawi Catholic priest not in good standing; I suspect if the priest was Greek Orthodox the complaint would have been upheld on freedom-of-religion grounds.

Nevertheless I agree that the law is inappropriate. False advertising laws should suffice for the most egregious cases, and caveat emptor for the rest. The state has no business ruling which magic cards are legit and which are bogus.


Could the case have been referred to the EU on grounds of restricting competition ?
 

an modh coinniolach

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Oct 28, 2010
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The relevant section was not intended to ban, say, Greek Orthodox mass cards, if such things exist. It was meant to ban "trafficking" in Catholic mass cards. People felt it is OK to sell a card for a priest to say one mass, and OK to sell 100 cards for 10 priests to say 10 masses each, but not OK to sell 100 cards for one priest to say one mass for 100 intentions.

The High Court rejected a complaint from a business that bulk bought from a Malawi Catholic priest not in good standing; I suspect if the priest was Greek Orthodox the complaint would have been upheld on freedom-of-religion grounds.

Nevertheless I agree that the law is inappropriate. False advertising laws should suffice for the most egregious cases, and caveat emptor for the rest. The state has no business ruling which magic cards are legit and which are bogus.
If this happened with any other type of transaction it would be described as outsourcing and the political classes would tell us it is a good thing.

I await, and will heartily support, a buy Irish mass card campaign.
 

PleaseDaddyNo

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Feb 15, 2013
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this is what you get when you let right wing muppets to write your laws!!!
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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Feb 5, 2013
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Mass Remembrance Cards | Missionaries of the Sacred Heart

"This legislation is very welcome to ensure the safeguarding of the integrity and sacredness of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and to protect the public from being duped into believing that they are purchasing a genuine Mass card and supporting their Church. The problem that the legislation solves was well described by Senator Feargal Quinn during the debate on the Charities Bill in the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) when he said: “I wish to highlight the massive scam of bogus Mass cards for sale in shops. I believe in a number of cases it was found that the Mass cards on sale were questionable. One priest had been dead for two years and in another case a priest received 12 cent from the sale of a Mass card that retailed for €4. They are fraudulent cards and are very offensive to those who carry out the work of the Church. They upset many people who believe they are doing the right thing and they hamper many generous efforts”
 

Paddyc

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Jan 30, 2009
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9,300
It's a bit like the horsemeat in burgers.

It won't do you any harm but you're entitled to buy what it says is on the tin and get what you are paying for.

The overwhelming majority of people who buy mass cards do so on the basis that a mass will be said by a priest for their intentions.

The problem with going to Court on this one is showing loss.
 

Paddyc

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Jan 30, 2009
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9,300
Where is this Charity Commission that was announced back in 2009-2010? It is now 2013 and the various cons, illicit funding of politics via the 'charity' sector, lack of regulation over some extraordinarily profitable little corners for various Irish 'social entrepreneurs' which requires much closer examination by the authorities.

It is extraordinary that the Irish state should involve itself in arranging a cartel for one cult via legislation while apparently walking straight past an absolute nest of unregulated 'fixes' in Irish public life.

There are over 7,000 'charities' registered with the Revenue Commissioners and an unknown number are anything but charities.
Hi Lamport,

Last I heard the Department of Justice were looking for the charities to pay for the Charities Commission.

Consultation on the implementation of the Charities Act 2009
The Department of Justice and Equality is holding a public consultation on the implementation of the Charities Act 2009. This consultation will be open until 20th March 2013. To read the consultation document and make a submission, click here.

As part of this consultation, a stakeholder meeting will be held. Closing date to register your interest in attending this meeting is 28 February 2013. Please register here.
 

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