Does the bank crash stem from the Civil War?

He3

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Here's an interesting and I think novel thought advanced by a letter writer in the IT, Eugene Tannam from Firhouse:

The cost of the banking crisis coupled with the fiscal deficit clearly demonstrates the inability of the Irish politicians to govern, or at least regulate, systems that should be beneficial to the general population. I believe there is a historical reason for this failing.

Contrast two groups of countries – Canada, Australia and New Zealand on the one hand, and India, Pakistan, Ireland and the former British colonies in Africa, on the other.

The former group made its way to independence and prosperity without firing a shot, whereas the latter group has been riven with internecine fighting and civil disorder, stymying any chance of political maturity. Add to this the sense of entitlement felt by victorious parties and reasons for the lack of progress is obvious.

In Ireland, since the Civil War, two groups of people have felt intrinsically chosen and entitled to profit on the opposition’s loss of office. As a result the notion of a united Irish society is subconsciously anathema to both groups, leaving room for opportunists and gombeenmen, from within and outside their ranks, to abuse office.

If €50 billion is the price of true independence, ie, the end of the FF/FG hegemony, and gives rise to the emergence of a political system that includes “all” the people, then it may be worth it. Turning our backs on history might be the best revolution.


The Irish Times - Letters

FF and FG supporters won't like it, but is he wrong?
 


hiding behind a poster

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Of course he's wrong. The "hegemony" he refers to isn't some mythical thing that the people are shut out from, its actually the fact than in every election since the foundation of the State, more because have voted for either FF or FG than have voted for ANY other party. That is a democratic decision made by the Irish people. The fact that he doesn't like it doesn't give him the right to ignore the Irish people's democratic decision.
 

hmmm

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The fact that he doesn't like it doesn't give him the right to ignore the Irish people's democratic decision.
Yes, half the population vote for politicians on the basis of what they can bring for the local area. We elect gombeens and half-wits and they run the country into the ground, it's what we should expect.
 

wombat

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Here's an interesting and I think novel thought advanced by a letter writer in the IT, Eugene Tannam from Firhouse:
.....

FF and FG supporters won't like it, but is he wrong?
I'd say just nuts:lol:
 

Catalpa

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er NO is the straight answer.

The Banking Crises stems from the attempts of the Oligarchy in this State to create a level of wealth based on continued and increasing borrowing over the last 40 years or so

- & in particular over the last decade based upon an Economy that could not ultimately support it...

Hopefully this time the lesson will be learned and like Germany in 1923 the events yet to come will cast a long shadow down the decades

- and instil the Spirit of Financial Prudence in future generations of Irish voters and politicians...
 

alonso

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I wouldn't dismiss his argument too hastily. Political debate in this country has always been dreadful, mainly non-existent actually. There han't been any leadership in my lifetime at all...
 

jpc

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I wouldn't dismiss his argument too hastily. Political debate in this country has always been dreadful, mainly non-existent actually. There han't been any leadership in my lifetime at all...
Diarmuid Ferriter fronted a very interesting series a few months ago that wasn't too far away from this opinion either.
Especially the way the Irish left wing was practically smothered at the foundation of the state.
 
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hiding behind a poster

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Diarmuid Ferriter fronted a very interesting series a few months ago that wasn't too far away from this opinion either.
Especially the way the Irish left wing was practically smothered at the foundation of the nation.
The left-wing wasn't smothered, there just wasn't very much of it.
 

kerdasi amaq

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That letter writer is telling Fianna Fáil to wind themselves up, like the PDs!
 

jpc

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foundation of the state , not the nation. It was a conservative counter revolution to usurp the Irish peoples sovereignty , what do you expect . The non republican left can consider themselves lucky they werent smothered in the manner Liam Mellowes was .
I stand corrected. Thanks.
 

merle haggard

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as regards your mans thesis about canada , Australia , New Zealand etc those societies were dominated by colonial settlers , not native inhabitants whod mostly been wiped out to the point of being overrun . None of them were subject to British inspired counter revolutions and death squads . Winston Churchill was not supplying one secton of the canadian or Australian population with artilleryand machine guns and ordering them to attack their neighbours or face attack themselves . There were no B Specials running about australia burning sections of the town down . The chaos in the colonies was often British inspired , partition and ethinic hatred and all the rest . The colonial power ensuring native cliques had something to fight over and the issue forgotten and not addressed .
The point of theletter might as well have stated look at these WASP societies and look at the fuzzy wuzzies/ bog wogs .
Britin created the status quo in Ireland . From that status quo followed on political cliques competing for advantage within it . The failure to get rid of the status quo and settling for much less than what the outlined position of national sovereignty entailed is where our troubles stem from .
 

GDPR

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Of course he's wrong. The "hegemony" he refers to isn't some mythical thing that the people are shut out from, its actually the fact than in every election since the foundation of the State, more because have voted for either FF or FG than have voted for ANY other party. That is a democratic decision made by the Irish people. The fact that he doesn't like it doesn't give him the right to ignore the Irish people's democratic decision.
Not that I ever want to agree with you, but you do realise you are wasting your time on this thread.
They wouldn't post this sort of stuff up if they didn't want to believe it.
 

merle haggard

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The left-wing wasn't smothered, there just wasn't very much of it.
it was sizable enough at one point . However its leadership proved every bit as reactionary and cynical as the others . The reason it was never smothered was that it wasnt worth smothering , it wasnt a threat to any vested interests , British or native
 

jpc

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as regards your mans thesis about canada , Australia , New Zealand etc those societies were dominated by colonial settlers , not native inhabitants whod mostly been wiped out to the point of being overrun . None of them were subject to British inspired counter revolutions and death squads . Winston Churchill was not supplying one secton of the canadian or Australian population with artilleryand machine guns and ordering them to attack their neighbours or face attack themselves . There were no B Specials running about australia burning sections of the town down . The chaos in the colonies was often British inspired , partition and ethinic hatred and all the rest . The colonial power ensuring native cliques had something to fight over and the issue forgotten and not addressed .
The point of theletter might as well have stated look at these WASP societies and look at the fuzzy wuzzies/ bog wogs .
Britin created the status quo in Ireland . From that status quo followed on political cliques competing for advantage within it . The failure to get rid of the status quo and settling for much less than what the outlined position of national sovereignty entailed is where our troubles stem from .

I remember reading somewhere that the English didn't want to loose the industrialised region around Belfast.
So favour one tribe over another.
 

merle haggard

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I remember reading somewhere that the English didn't want to loose the industrialised region around Belfast.
So favour one tribe over another.
they didnt want to lose their physical foot hold on the island . Their interest is primarily strategic and always has been . And theyll use tribes or sections against one another as and when they see fit . They have no freinds , just interests . For a long time they favourd the SDLP ,even when it drove the unionists nuts particularly around the ango irish agreemnt period . Yet they shamlessly abandoned their patronage towards them in favour of sinn fein when interests dictated it so . Much to the SDLPs chagrin they were dropped like a wet dihcloth overnight despite their sterling loyalty over the years .
The state in the south , just like the one in the north , was created by Britian amid deliberately sponsored mayhem and murder both sides of the border that Britian fomented and supplied the guns for . The ethos of both states was determined by Britian and only cosmetic changes ever occured to both .Neither state was run in the interests of the Irish people , both were run in the interests of those who upheld the status quo Britian created out of colonial interest . Both are unsurprisingly an economic disaster zone .
 

Cael

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Yes, the native landowners subverted the independence movement and helped the Brits to set up the free state. The free state has functioned to keep land prices high ever since. Raymond Crotty writes very well on this issue.
 

Cael

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The left-wing wasn't smothered, there just wasn't very much of it.
There were hundreds of Soviets all over Ireland in 1919/20, particularly in Munster, running factories, creameries, etc. Michael collins set up a special unit of the free state army to work with right wing death squads to crush these Soviets in 1922 - just like General Pinochet and other fascist vermin.
 


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