Does the EU ever make mistakes?

Dame_Enda

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While supportive of the EU, I have several criticisms, such as the unvouched expenses in the European Parliament.

Does anyone here have any criticisms of the EU, or do you think - as many of the Irish elite seem to - that its some kind of Utopia?
 


CatullusV

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While supportive of the EU, I have several criticisms, such as the unvouched expenses in the European Parliament.

Does anyone here have any criticisms of the EU, or do you think - as many of the Irish elite seem to - that its some kind of Utopia?
How could an organisation of the scale and scope of the EU *not* make mistakes?

Untouched expenses is a minor issue, and it is often in the business world that a per diem is paid rather than processing receipts

The other errors? Well, for me the biggy is the Euro.

There is also the Strasburg/Brussels waste

Also, its engagement with the citizens they represent is dismal.

I'm a europhile, by the way.
 

artfoley56

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jesus, where to start!

make the commission accountable. make the civil servants accountable (i say this as a civil servant). wind up the ECHR and just have the ECJ, but treble the judges.

the EU works but the veering into massive federal state is some way from the ideals of schumann
 

livingstone

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jesus, where to start!

make the commission accountable. make the civil servants accountable (i say this as a civil servant). wind up the ECHR and just have the ECJ, but treble the judges.

the EU works but the veering into massive federal state is some way from the ideals of schumann
Hang on, what?

Wind up the ECHR? Anyone else I'd do my 'what does the ECHR have to do with the EU' line, but you claim to be a lawyer, right?
 

Mickeymac

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While supportive of the EU, I have several criticisms, such as the unvouched expenses in the European Parliament.

Does anyone here have any criticisms of the EU, or do you think - as many of the Irish elite seem to - that its some kind of Utopia?


You need to read the writings of some very learned Irish academics and see how they compare Ireland prior membership of the EU and present day Dame.
 

Dame_Enda

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You need to read the writings of some very learned Irish academics and see how they compare Ireland prior membership of the EU and present day Dame.
I have never disputed life is better since we joined. You could say life eventually got better a long time after independence too. If we have vouched expenses in Dail Eireann we should have it in the European Parliament too. And it is not a minor issue as CatallusV argues.
 

owedtojoy

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While supportive of the EU, I have several criticisms, such as the unvouched expenses in the European Parliament.

Does anyone here have any criticisms of the EU, or do you think - as many of the Irish elite seem to - that its some kind of Utopia?
Name members of the Irish "elite" who have expressed the opinion that the EU is "some kind of Utopia". A Utopia is a free lunch. Who says we get a free lunch from the EU?

Nobody, as far as I know.

We are in the EU purely from utilitarian motives, in the exercise of "enlightened self-interest".
 

owedtojoy

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You need to read the writings of some very learned Irish academics and see how they compare Ireland prior membership of the EU and present day Dame.
Having lived the first 1/3rd of my life in non-EU Ireland, I do not need any academics to tell me how much better Ireland is since the country joined.
 

Mickeymac

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I have never disputed life is better since we joined. You could say life eventually got better a long time after independence too. If we have vouched expenses in Dail Eireann we should have it in the European Parliament too. And it is not a minor issue as CatallusV argues.

Yet you claimed in your OP that many Irish elite think it is some kind of Utopia!

Where are these people?
 

Dame_Enda

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I remember when we have an EU referendum the politicians always point to the economic benefits and call us ungrateful when we vote no. That sounds Utopian to me. Of course the Greek crisis showed the other side of the EU.
 

Mickeymac

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Having lived the first 1/3rd of my life in non-EU Ireland, I do not need any academics to tell me how much better Ireland is since the country joined.


Indeed pal, but, it was not you who created the thread....got it?
 

kerdasi amaq

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Yes, allowing Ireland to join the EEC was one of the biggest mistakes that they ever made.
 

artfoley56

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Hang on, what?

Wind up the ECHR? Anyone else I'd do my 'what does the ECHR have to do with the EU' line, but you claim to be a lawyer, right?
its based in the EU and mostly funded by EU member contributions. its doable but would be in an underhanded way.
 

livingstone

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its based in the EU and mostly funded by EU member contributions. its doable but would be in an underhanded way.
Based in the EU? Like geographically? OK. So is the Nato headquarters - that would not make it a matter for the EU to wind up Nato. Funded by EU member contributions? So is UEFA - again, doesn't mean UEFA has anything to do with the EU.

ECHR is not a creature of the EU. It does does different things and has a different jurisdiction than the CJEU, both in the scope of law covered, territorial scope and effect of its judgments.

It is not within the gift of the EU to wind up the ECHR, and of course in doing so and remitting its functions somehow to the CJEU, you would leave 19 (soon to be 20) states currently subject to ECHR jurisdiction outside the jurisdiction of an international court covering individual human rights cases.
 

artfoley56

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Based in the EU? Like geographically? OK. So is the Nato headquarters - that would not make it a matter for the EU to wind up Nato. Funded by EU member contributions? So is UEFA - again, doesn't mean UEFA has anything to do with the EU.

ECHR is not a creature of the EU. It does does different things and has a different jurisdiction than the CJEU, both in the scope of law covered, territorial scope and effect of its judgments.

It is not within the gift of the EU to wind up the ECHR, and of course in doing so and remitting its functions somehow to the CJEU, you would leave 19 (soon to be 20) states currently subject to ECHR jurisdiction outside the jurisdiction of an international court covering individual human rights case
put very simply, and without lots of words, if the EU wanted rid of the ECHR, they have the means to do so.
 

kerdasi amaq

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livingstone

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put very simply, and without lots of words, if the EU wanted rid of the ECHR, they have the means to do so.
No it doesn't.

I think what you're suggesting is that if the EU member states that provide the bulk of COE funding were to withdraw that funding, the ECHR would be forced out of business.

That is correct, but the means of doing so lies not with the EU but with five EU member states' governments (soon to be four). If you really think that the EU has the means to compel or prompt France, Germany, Italy and Spain (and the UK...) to withdraw from the COE, so that they will remain subject to (some) form of human rights oversight from the CJEU but the likes of Russia, Turkey will be freed from the ECHR shackles, you're deluded.
 

kerdasi amaq

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At least Dame has got one poster to back up her anti-European rant. 😂
Well, I would hope that Frau Merkel would agree with me on that point, that allowing Ireland to join the EEC was a big mistake.

image.jpeg
 


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