Does the EU ever make mistakes?

seanof

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Why do you want to dismantle the EU the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world in a continent parts of which were reduced to ruin by imperial/totalitarian wars over the centuries?
The problem with the EU is that some powerful people want to transform it from the free trade organisation focusing on mutual development and support, which member states signed up to, into a federal state of itself. The missing factor is public support for these moves. It's likely that if a referendum was held in each member state right now that most would vote to leave. Ireland, of course, would vote to remain. Ireland was lucky to have a robust constitution that required the people to be consulted at every stage of the development of the EU. Most countries didn't have that privilege and some, including Germany AFAIK, never consulted their people directly at any point since 1972 (or never!). It's no wonder people are cynical.

If the powers that be have any cop on, they'll put the brakes on the United States of Europe "project". Otherwise they'll recreate the popular discontent that led to previous European wars.
 


General Urko

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The EU gravy train merchants have made a fatal mistake in making an EU which is not for the common person and hopefully that will see the end of it!
 

hiding behind a poster

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WW1 and WW2 were caused by Empires. The EUSSR is an Empire... how do people who cheer it on sleep at night...
I hope you realise that every time you refer to the "EUSSR", you out yourself as an utter imbecile.
 

toughbutfair

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This is not about what I do or do not want to happen. It's about the inevitable collapse of the Euro as a result of the collapse of the Italian economy. As for the EU, economic cooperation was and is a good thing, greater political union ain't and just won't be tolerated and that also will lead to inevitable trouble.
That is a silly post. The euro might collapse but to state the it is inevitable is wrong.
 

Northsideman

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That is a silly post. The euro might collapse but to state the it is inevitable is wrong.
When the Italian economy keels over the Euro will unfortunately also and cause EU mayhem but not enough people are paying attention to this and are looking the other way. The signs are there and writ large are you looking the other way?
 

Tacitus

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Most countries didn't have that privilege and some, including Germany AFAIK, never consulted their people directly at any point since 1972 (or never!). It's no wonder people are cynical
The people in Germany have consistently voted for parties that openly declared that they wanted a close political union, with various chancellors declaring that the end goal is a Federal Europe. You can't agree more on that than granting various terms to those persons. The agreement with the EU is so big amomg Germans that even the AfD dialed back their anti-EU to not lose voters because of it.

This is just typical propaganda that claims that the EU used to be about economy, when it was always also linked to political integration. Starting with the montan union, that always had a political dimension to it (controlling the coal and steel production to make further wars impossible, and returning political rights to West Germany).
 

shiel

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The people in Germany have consistently voted for parties that openly declared that they wanted a close political union, with various chancellors declaring that the end goal is a Federal Europe. You can't agree more on that than granting various terms to those persons. The agreement with the EU is so big amomg Germans that even the AfD dialed back their anti-EU to not lose voters because of it.

This is just typical propaganda that claims that the EU used to be about economy, when it was always also linked to political integration. Starting with the montan union, that always had a political dimension to it (controlling the coal and steel production to make further wars impossible, and returning political rights to West Germany).
How the EU develops into the future is open to argument.

But dismantling it as the Brexiteers want to do is just joining the Trump, Putin, European fascist agenda and is indefensible.
 

Dame_Enda

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Fears of a new round of austerity. The EUs longterm budget proposal would slash EU funding for poor communities by half to offset the costs of Brexit.

 

toughbutfair

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When the Italian economy keels over the Euro will unfortunately also and cause EU mayhem but not enough people are paying attention to this and are looking the other way. The signs are there and writ large are you looking the other way?
That “could” happen, however you don’t know that it “will” happen. Read the posts from 2010 when so many here said that the Euro cannot survive. We had fools repeating what economists in the Irish media said I.e. that it was impossible to reduce spending and grow the economy. The media should have humiliated those economists when the economy began to grow.

Nobody has a clue what will happen.
 

Tacitus

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That “could” happen, however you don’t know that it “will” happen. Read the posts from 2010 when so many here said that the Euro cannot survive. We had fools repeating what economists in the Irish media said I.e. that it was impossible to reduce spending and grow the economy. The media should have humiliated those economists when the economy began to grow.

Nobody has a clue what will happen.
Indeed. Renowned economists like Paul Krugman predicted the end of the euro for 2012, 2013, 2014. That it yet survived the decade should have humbled some of the doomsayers. Furthermore predicting the collapse of the Italian economy is nothing new either. Experts have been predicting this since the late 1980s.

There is no guarantee that it can not happen, and there are in fact reasons to believe that it might happen. But it is far from certain as some on this forum seem to believe.
 

Northsideman

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That “could” happen, however you don’t know that it “will” happen. Read the posts from 2010 when so many here said that the Euro cannot survive. We had fools repeating what economists in the Irish media said I.e. that it was impossible to reduce spending and grow the economy. The media should have humiliated those economists when the economy began to grow.

Nobody has a clue what will happen.
Do you really think the Italian economy is solid? When it goes so does the Euro.
 

toughbutfair

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Do you really think the Italian economy is solid? When it goes so does the Euro.
I have never believed the Italian economy to be solid. I've no idea what will happen.

Even if it does collapse, it may just leave the Euro. Nobody has a clue of the future
 

shiel

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Do you really think the Italian economy is solid? When it goes so does the Euro.
If it does the Brexiteers and the London media will rejoice and scoff at Paddy and his troubles.

Trump and Putin, not to mention European fascists, will also join in the rejoicing.
 

Northsideman

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If it does the Brexiteers and the London media will rejoice and scoff at Paddy and his troubles.

Trump and Putin, not to mention European fascists, will also join in the rejoicing.
And could you blame them given all the pontificating the EU side have done.
 

shiel

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And could you blame them given all the pontificating the EU side have done.
The EU is trying to keep an agreement signed by nearly thirty European democracies in operation.

That in a continent which was riven for centuries by imperial/totalitarian strife.

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were former colonies of Russia.

The blame rests with English Brexiteers, European fascists and powerful world leaders like Trump and Putin who want to dismantle the EU, re-erect the iron curtain and dominate Europe as before.
 

Dame_Enda

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Another mistake. The EP President Sassoli announcing that Junqueras immunity as an MEP has been revoked and that hes no longer an MEP, and inviting Spain to name a replacement.

Te legality of this decision seems questionable. I recall that when Jean Marie Le Pens immunity was revoked when he was an MEP, it was on foot of a EP vote. It does not appear a vote of all MEPs has happened here.

The rules from the EU website appear to state that a vote of MEPs is required to remove immunity. The EU is increasingly being defied by the Spanish authorities. The EP itself seems to be in danger of defying it's own court. The Article 39 right of EU citizens in the Charter of Fundamental Rights to freely elect their representatives appears to be trampled on.

Following a request by a competent national authority to the European Parliament that the immunity of a Member be waived (or a request by an MEP or former MEP that his/her immunity is defended), Parliament’s President will announce the request to the plenum and refer it to the parliamentary committee responsible, which is the Committee on Legal Affairs.

The committee may ask for any information or explanation which it deems necessary. The MEP concerned will be given an opportunity to be heard, and may present any documents or other written evidence.


The committee adopts, in camera, a recommendation to the whole Parliament to approve or reject the request, i.e. to lift or defend the immunity. At the plenary session following the committee decision, Parliament reaches a decision by a simple majority vote. Following the vote, the President will immediately communicate Parliament's decision to the MEP concerned and to the competent authority of the Member State concerned...
 

Dearghoul

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Another mistake. The EP President Sassoli announcing that Junqueras immunity as an MEP has been revoked and that hes no longer an MEP, and inviting Spain to name a replacement.

Te legality of this decision seems questionable. I recall that when Jean Marie Le Pens immunity was revoked when he was an MEP, it was on foot of a EP vote. It does not appear a vote of all MEPs has happened here.

The rules from the EU website appear to state that a vote of MEPs is required to remove immunity. The EU is increasingly being defied by the Spanish authorities. The EP itself seems to be in danger of defying it's own court. The Article 39 right of EU citizens in the Charter of Fundamental Rights to freely elect their representatives appears to be trampled on.
If it has, the commission will shortly be up before it.

One of the advantages of an accountable European Union.
 

Dame_Enda

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Note this was a decision by European Parliament president not Commission president.

Do we want the EP President to essentially have a power to fire elected MEPs? Very dangerous for democracy.

Spain coming after the seated Catalan fugitive MEPs including Carles Puigdemont next.
 

Dame_Enda

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Two separatist Catalan MEPs, ex Catalan president Carles Puigdemont and Toni Comin, have taken their seats. However they are subject to extradition requests by Spain.

 


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