Does the Gaeilge/irish rule ensure that NUI Universities will always languish down the league tables ?

Hunter-Gatherer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,486
Does the Gaeilge/irish rule ensure that NUI Universities will always languish down the league tables ?

We all know that in order to be offered a place at a NUI university, all irish-born applicants must achieve at least a pass in Leaving Cert Irish. A candidate for, say, Engineering with straight A's across all other Leaving Cert subjects will have their application rejected should they fail to have irish.

World University rankings are often bitterly fought and extremely competitive. Places like Oxford and Cambridge will fight as hard to get the best Freshmen as Premier League football clubs fight to recruit the best football talent. Good talent = good graduates.

This gives rise to a few questions :

- Are NUI universities getting the best talent ?
- Are they getting B grade students whereas other places would do better ?
- Is this fair for students who do not pursue irish ?
- Do students from places like Gaelschools have an unfair advantage ?
- Do Gaelschool students do as well at University Medical school (or any high prestige degrees) as other entrants ?

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings
 


Windowshopper

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
8,705
No.
 

A Voice

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
7,416
We all know that in order to be offered a place at a NUI university, all irish-born applicants must achieve at least a pass in Leaving Cert Irish. A candidate for, say, Engineering with straight A's across all other Leaving Cert subjects will have their application rejected should they fail to have irish.

World University rankings are often bitterly fought and extremely competitive. Places like Oxford and Cambridge will fight as hard to get the best Freshmen as Premier League football clubs fight to recruit the best football talent. Good talent = good graduates.

This gives rise to a few questions :

- Are NUI universities getting the best talent ?
- Are they getting B grade students whereas other places would do better ?
- Is this fair for students who do not pursue irish ?
- Do students from places like Gaelschools have an unfair advantage ?
- Do Gaelschool students do as well at University Medical school (or any high prestige degrees) as other entrants ?

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings
No. You cite engineering. One Irish university's enginnering dept got rid of the Irish requirement. They got 2 candidates who otherwise wouldn't have gone there.

Believe me, someone who gets straight A's across all other Leaving Cert subjects will get a pass in Irish.

So that's a Fail for you.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,602

galteeman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,644
according to that link
Trinity College Dublin 98
UCD 176
Queens Belfast 195
Galway 249

someone mentioned that if they merged Trinity and UCD it would fly up the rankings and attract more foreign talent
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,161
The world ranking are rubbish anyway.
 

galteeman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,644

Niall996

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
11,823
We all know that in order to be offered a place at a NUI university, all irish-born applicants must achieve at least a pass in Leaving Cert Irish. A candidate for, say, Engineering with straight A's across all other Leaving Cert subjects will have their application rejected should they fail to have irish.

World University rankings are often bitterly fought and extremely competitive. Places like Oxford and Cambridge will fight as hard to get the best Freshmen as Premier League football clubs fight to recruit the best football talent. Good talent = good graduates.

This gives rise to a few questions :

- Are NUI universities getting the best talent ?
- Are they getting B grade students whereas other places would do better ?
- Is this fair for students who do not pursue irish ?
- Do students from places like Gaelschools have an unfair advantage ?
- Do Gaelschool students do as well at University Medical school (or any high prestige degrees) as other entrants ?

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings
I doubt it impacts in the quality of attendees but it certainly does nothing for the Irish language and is a stupid rule anyway from Irelands dark past, akin to something from Nth Korea. And in all the interviews I've been in, whichever side of the table or heard of, I've never once heard the ranking of a university ever bought up.
 

Lord Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
3,893
Agree with the North Korea reference. This state's Irish language policy is regressive and ignorant. I blame the constitution for placing too much importance on it. This is an English speaking country now, time to accept that reality and serve the public accordingly.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,296
We all know that in order to be offered a place at a NUI university, all irish-born applicants must achieve at least a pass in Leaving Cert Irish. A candidate for, say, Engineering with straight A's across all other Leaving Cert subjects will have their application rejected should they fail to have irish.

World University rankings are often bitterly fought and extremely competitive. Places like Oxford and Cambridge will fight as hard to get the best Freshmen as Premier League football clubs fight to recruit the best football talent. Good talent = good graduates.

This gives rise to a few questions :

- Are NUI universities getting the best talent ?
- Are they getting B grade students whereas other places would do better ?
- Is this fair for students who do not pursue irish ?
- Do students from places like Gaelschools have an unfair advantage ?
- Do Gaelschool students do as well at University Medical school (or any high prestige degrees) as other entrants ?

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings
Let's get real here - how many students who get straight As in all other subjects would fail to even have a pass in Irish? Really? The only students that would realistically apply to would be the ones who were exempt from taking Irish because they were 9 or older when they moved to Ireland, and those people would get an exemption from the rules at third level too.

As attacks on the Irish language go, this one is pathetic.
 

Fritzbox

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
2,578
Agree with the North Korea reference. This state's Irish language policy is regressive and ignorant. I blame the constitution for placing too much importance on it. This is an English speaking country now, time to accept that reality and serve the public accordingly.
Do you object to the teaching of Latin and Greek in schools all over Europe?
 

TheField

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
3,223
Do students from places like Gaelschools have an unfair advantage ?
Yes insofar as bonus marks are awarded to students writing certain papers in Irish: https://www.examinations.ie/?l=en&mc=ca&sc=im

This potentially distorts the CAO system and may put some students on courses ahead of those who would be more capable otherwise.

Why this distortion exists is beyond me. Why does it matter what language you answer in?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
No OP. If you knew anything about European Universities, you would know that a level of competency in a foreign language is required for entry.

You may be a brilliant mathematician or physicist, but you still need to have acquired an FCE for example.

Learning a language is a sign of intellectual versatility and makes it easier to learn another one.
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,602
Do you object to the teaching of Latin and Greek in schools all over Europe?
Latin and Greek were the languages of the Medieval European intelligentsia in the past. Have a look at the writings of Isaac Newton. Today the hot language is English. Irish was for farmers and fishermen.

Why does Trinity perform so much better than UCD ? Surely both are well funded, massive and have a good research profile ? The argument that they merge may be about as popular as the merging of the 26 counties with the North. And with some similar sectarian overtones. Even in 2017 the past does cast a long shadow.
 

CookieMonster

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
33,861
We all know that in order to be offered a place at a NUI university, all irish-born applicants must achieve at least a pass in Leaving Cert Irish. A candidate for, say, Engineering with straight A's across all other Leaving Cert subjects will have their application rejected should they fail to have irish.

World University rankings are often bitterly fought and extremely competitive. Places like Oxford and Cambridge will fight as hard to get the best Freshmen as Premier League football clubs fight to recruit the best football talent. Good talent = good graduates.

This gives rise to a few questions :

- Are NUI universities getting the best talent ?
- Are they getting B grade students whereas other places would do better ?
- Is this fair for students who do not pursue irish ?
- Do students from places like Gaelschools have an unfair advantage ?
- Do Gaelschool students do as well at University Medical school (or any high prestige degrees) as other entrants ?

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings
No, there are far more problems keeping Irish Universities down than the requirement for pass Irish. There are far more problems keeping Irish Universities down than the quality of their incoming undergrads, if that is a problem at all.
 

redneck

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
6,979
What about all the state resources put into the Ulster Scots language? I mean how does the N.I universities rank.
 

Windowshopper

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
8,705
If you were Chinese and deciding where to go in Europe would you not take them into account?
There value is that they are seen to have value. The methodology in which these rankings are made are questionable and display a strong Anglo-American bias. They also tend to weigh heavily on research and less on teaching which would be more important for undergrad choice.
 

Windowshopper

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
8,705
Agree with the North Korea reference. This state's Irish language policy is regressive and ignorant. I blame the constitution for placing too much importance on it. This is an English speaking country now, time to accept that reality and serve the public accordingly.
The Irish language matriculation for NUI is older than the state. Claiming the Irish language is a problem when we have one of the highest third level participation rates in the world is silly.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
The world ranking are rubbish anyway.
Why say that?
Some university's are better than others.
The classification system may not satisfy you but it serves a sort of guide .

Re the OP I think a gaelge rule is OK provided a waiver can be made for those who make a good case.
 

A Voice

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
7,416
Agree with the North Korea reference. This state's Irish language policy is regressive and ignorant. I blame the constitution for placing too much importance on it. This is an English speaking country now, time to accept that reality and serve the public accordingly.
Says the Lord who lives in Kingstown. Looks like reality hasn't bitten thereabouts this last century or so.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top