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Does the UK need to change their laws to deal with those misusing the bankruptcy system?


Sync

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Interesting note today in the Indo:

UK punishes Irish bankruptcy cheats - Independent.ie

THE UK's insolvency watchdog has heavily penalised two Irish property developers who transferred money to their relatives and hid assets before they were declared bankrupt in Britain.

Patrick Gerard Byrne and Martin Doran have been told they must spend nine and seven years respectively in bankruptcy – instead of the usual 12 months – after they were found to have been trying to "put the money beyond the reach of creditors".

Allan Mitchell of the Insolvency Service said: "They thought they could wipe these debts out in a year and move on. They transferred money to friends, relatives and associates – anyone but their creditors."
So this is a good thing IMO, the courts found that these 2 were trying to hide assets away from creditors and cheat the system, and they've been punished to a degree.

But going forward, do they need to alter the law so that doing this sort of thing would be deemed to represent a fraud upon the court with a custodial sentence to follow? Aside from the disrespect shown to the justice system you've fled to to get relief from, creditors go bust themselves because of these actions, Courts have to pay to investigate these sort of illegitimate actions.

It just doesn't seem a sufficient punishment to me to simply extend the period of bankruptcy, there needs to be a criminal punishment for it.
 

ruserious

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29,608
You should declare bankruptcy in the State you owe the most to.
 

Sync

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Totally get that. If I were the UK the first thing I'd do would be to change the residency requirements to 3 years, get rid of a load of the Irish floating over in tyres for 12 months just to avail of this.
 

neiphin

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Totally get that. If I were the UK the first thing I'd do would be to change the residency requirements to 3 years, get rid of a load of the Irish floating over in tyres for 12 months just to avail of this.
YOU EQUATING US TO CUBANS ?
i think the sooner this failed state fall the better

sleeveens like you will be lined up against the wall , like Ceausescu
 

Cato

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Totally get that. If I were the UK the first thing I'd do would be to change the residency requirements to 3 years, get rid of a load of the Irish floating over in tyres for 12 months just to avail of this.
Or the we could simply put a similar bankruptcy regime as the British have in place here.
 

Cato

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20,562
YOU EQUATING US TO CUBANS ?
i think the sooner this failed state fall the better

sleeveens like you will be lined up against the wall , like Ceausescu
It very early in the day to be drinking.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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Feb 5, 2013
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Do those to whom the money was transferred to not have to pay tax on the gift?
 

Ribeye

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Jul 12, 2011
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Totally get that. If I were the UK the first thing I'd do would be to change the residency requirements to 3 years, get rid of a load of the Irish floating over in tyres for 12 months just to avail of this.
oh Syncy,

what am i gonna do with ye,

your so confused,



don't worry, it'll all be over soon enough,
 

Ribeye

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YOU EQUATING US TO CUBANS ?
i think the sooner this failed state fall the better

sleeveens like you will be lined up against the wall , like Ceausescu
easy now,

nobody will be going against any walls,

thats their way, not ours,
 

neiphin

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5,588
easy now,

nobody will be going against any walls,

thats their way, not ours,
our way is to elect subserviant sleeveens, surround them with more sleeveens like sync
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
Interesting note today in the Indo:

UK punishes Irish bankruptcy cheats - Independent.ie

So this is a good thing IMO, the courts found that these 2 were trying to hide assets away from creditors and cheat the system, and they've been punished to a degree.

But going forward, do they need to alter the law so that doing this sort of thing would be deemed to represent a fraud upon the court with a custodial sentence to follow? Aside from the disrespect shown to the justice system you've fled to to get relief from, creditors go bust themselves because of these actions, Courts have to pay to investigate these sort of illegitimate actions.

It just doesn't seem a sufficient punishment to me to simply extend the period of bankruptcy, there needs to be a criminal punishment for it.
Why should UK have to change its laws ?

This law has always been in effect and it allows Courts in UK to go back 6 years and unwind any activity in that time if it has been deemed to have been done in a manner that was fraudulent or could be construed as fraudulent in denying creditors.

It applies to anybody buying property from someone, as when buying property from people at an undervalue it became necessary to take out a single premium indemnity insurance to CYA.

If I bought a house for £120k from a desperate seller needing a quick sale even though in an efficient market it was worth £200k. If person became bankrupt with 6 years the transaction could be unwound and I would owe bank the money but the property would then go back to trustees in bankruptcy and I would sit as an unsecured creditor. This when it was an arms length transaction so selling to a close relative is subject to even more scruitiny.

Unfortunately the bankruptcy tourists are forgetting there is a law in place and has been for years and the 2 caught got what they deserved.
 

Ribeye

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our way is to elect subserviant sleeveens, surround them with more sleeveens like sync
when i said "ours", i wasn't referring to Irish people,
 

raymond01

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Mar 6, 2013
Messages
86
Don't know about the Irish system, but it appears to punish people beyond reason. Our system encourages fraudsters. There is no real consequences for white collar crooks. I know guys who have set up business after business, every couple of years, they have new ones, Ltd companies with the sole intention of making make quick personal profits and run, leaving creditors footing their takings.
 

LamportsEdge

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Jan 10, 2012
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21,894
Thing is in the home of consumerism and 'have a go' capitalism in the United States it is much easier to go bust, move to another state and try again.

There is this weird puritan thing in Ireland that one must do a lengthy financial penance of some kind.

However the only chap I know of who went bust when I was young was a local man who had his own company buying meat wholesale and selling on to shops and so on- called a meeting of his creditors on a Friday night and threw a five punt note on the table and said 'share that among you' and walked out of the meeting.

Monday morning he was back buying the week's work of meat using cash and went off in his van as per usual.
 
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