Don't be "Not A Racist", Be an Antiracist

owedtojoy

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Definition of racism (Merriam-Webster)
  1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
  2. Politically,
    1. a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principle
    2. a political or social system founded on racism
  3. Racial prejudice or discrimination
"I am not a racist" said a New York woman who called the police, when a black man asked her to leash her dog in a public park.

The world is full of non-racists, just as it is full of people who are not bad drivers, do not have body odour or who are seldom wrong. We do not see (or smell) ourselves as other do. So what if we are full of tics and biases that we do not see, and are part of the "wallpaper" of our lives?


(Hat Tip to Kevin Parlon for the above.)


Antiracism carries with it a commitment to accept the systemic definition for racism—i.e., that it exists immanently, always and everywhere, regardless of intent—even if there isn’t a single person who is racist in the usual understanding. The system itself can be “racist” even if there are no racists within that system (see also, systemic power). An antiracist has the obligation of searching for instances of racism that confirm the systemic “reality” of racism, internally, with others, and in society and its various forms of representation.
A "non-racist" is complicit with racist. To be an antiracist, we need to understand how racism manifests ... how does a black or Asian person in Ireland "feel" racism.
  • For many black children, it means being harrassed and bullied at school, like being called "N*gger" or "Chink", then having any response laughed off "It was only a joke". The wounding starts early.
  • For teens and adults, it means getting the worse service in shops, bars and restaurants. Being ignored and made to wait until the white people are served. Being harrassed, like having a security guard follow you around a store, while pretending not to.
  • It means getting barracked and hassled in the street, "Paki!" "N*gger!" etc, with no one calling out the bullies (usually young teens).
  • It means getting undue attention from police, more frequent arrests and longer sentences.
  • It means having to be that much better than a white colleague or counterpart to get praised or noticed, or to get a job..
  • It means often being excluded, patronised and treated like a child, for example, by doctors or white health staff, or by the social welfare system.
Luckily, Ireland hs so far escaped the worst of systemic discrimination in employment and law enforcement. But if we are to suppress the rank odour of racism, then you have to open up to a tiny bit of wokeness, a little bit of activism.
  • Decide not to be part of any systemic racism. Make an act of self-determination in the true sense.
  • Ok, no need for drama, unless absolutely necessary.
  • Do a bit of self-examination
  • You could do worse than read some background on the experience of racism. Read at the two links above. Some good books have been published recently, though I have not read any since Barack Obama's Dreams of My Father, which is not about racism, but helps a sense of perspective. Books for kids and teens about race, racism and police violence
  • Watch a couple of films - like 10 Years a Slave, for a sense of history. Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing. Even a recommendation I saw during the week for In The Heat Of The Night, a Sidney Poitier- Rod Steiger vehicle of two very different cops forced into partnership.
  • Talk to your friends and spouse about racism.
  • Have The Conversation with your kids. Talk about what they see in school. Explain what is at stake. If we do not suppress racism in the next generation, we are only saving up a world of pain for our children.
  • Do not stand for any treatment of others in a racist manner - do not take advantage in shops. If you do not want to intervene when a person is hassled, at least comfort them.
  • Do none of the above. Think of something else.
  • I was in a hospital during the week, and appreciated the diversity of our wonderful Health Serivices frontline staff. Do something to show them your appreciation.
  • If you do not live up fully to your ideals, comfort youself. Move on, wait for the next. opportunity. This is a war of attrition, a guerrilla war, it does not depend on a single battle.
The stench of prejudice has to be eliminated, and the way to do it is to make it socially unacceptable even in small manifestations. It's the inkblot method, making small areas racism-free, and expanding. Start with yourself, your family and your community.
 


effer

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I must say that lately I'm getting a heavy stench that's coming from all these goodie goodie anti racists with their cheap protests that of course requires no self sacrifice from them, but gains them relief from lockdown. I'm not racist but I'm definitely anti-anti- racist.
 

cunnyfunt

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Definition of racism (Merriam-Webster)
  1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
  2. Politically,
    1. a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principle
    2. a political or social system founded on racism
  3. Racial prejudice or discrimination
"I am not a racist" said a New York woman who called the police, when a black man asked her to leash her dog in a public park.

The world is full of non-racists, just as it is full of people who are not bad drivers, do not have body odour or who are seldom wrong. We do not see (or smell) ourselves as other do. So what if we are full of tics and biases that we do not see, and are part of the "wallpaper" of our lives?


(Hat Tip to Kevin Parlon for the above.)




A "non-racist" is complicit with racist. To be an antiracist, we need to understand how racism manifests ... how does a black or Asian person in Ireland "feel" racism.
  • For many black children, it means being harrassed and bullied at school, like being called "N*gger" or "Chink", then having any response laughed off "It was only a joke". The wounding starts early.
  • For teens and adults, it means getting the worse service in shops, bars and restaurants. Being ignored and made to wait until the white people are served. Being harrassed, like having a security guard follow you around a store, while pretending not to.
  • It means getting barracked and hassled in the street, "Paki!" "N*gger!" etc, with no one calling out the bullies (usually young teens).
  • It means getting undue attention from police, more frequent arrests and longer sentences.
  • It means having to be that much better than a white colleague or counterpart to get praised or noticed, or to get a job..
  • It means often being excluded, patronised and treated like a child, for example, by doctors or white health staff, or by the social welfare system.
Luckily, Ireland hs so far escaped the worst of systemic discrimination in employment and law enforcement. But if we are to suppress the rank odour of racism, then you have to open up to a tiny bit of wokeness, a little bit of activism.
  • Decide not to be part of any systemic racism. Make an act of self-determination in the true sense.
  • Ok, no need for drama, unless absolutely necessary.
  • Do a bit of self-examination
  • You could do worse than read some background on the experience of racism. Read at the two links above. Some good books have been published recently, though I have not read any since Barack Obama's Dreams of My Father, which is not about racism, but helps a sense of perspective. Books for kids and teens about race, racism and police violence
  • Watch a couple of films - like 10 Years a Slave, for a sense of history. Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing. Even a recommendation I saw during the week for In The Heat Of The Night, a Sidney Poitier- Rod Steiger vehicle of two very different cops forced into partnership.
  • Talk to your friends and spouse about racism.
  • Have The Conversation with your kids. Talk about what they see in school. Explain what is at stake. If we do not suppress racism in the next generation, we are only saving up a world of pain for our children.
  • Do not stand for any treatment of others in a racist manner - do not take advantage in shops. If you do not want to intervene when a person is hassled, at least comfort them.
  • Do none of the above. Think of something else.
  • I was in a hospital during the week, and appreciated the diversity of our wonderful Health Serivices frontline staff. Do something to show them your appreciation.
  • If you do not live up fully to your ideals, comfort youself. Move on, wait for the next. opportunity. This is a war of attrition, a guerrilla war, it does not depend on a single battle.
The stench of prejudice has to be eliminated, and the way to do it is to make it socially unacceptable even in small manifestations. It's the inkblot method, making small areas racism-free, and expanding. Start with yourself, your family and your community.
I know we have racist individuals scattered throughout society. But racism is not accepted anywhere in society.
 

Golah veNekhar

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What about anti-"White" racism particularly against "White" Christians and "White" traditionally masculine or feminine working class or small farming people?
 

benroe

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Definition of racism (Merriam-Webster)
  1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
  2. Politically,
    1. a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principle
    2. a political or social system founded on racism
  3. Racial prejudice or discrimination
"I am not a racist" said a New York woman who called the police, when a black man asked her to leash her dog in a public park.

The world is full of non-racists, just as it is full of people who are not bad drivers, do not have body odour or who are seldom wrong. We do not see (or smell) ourselves as other do. So what if we are full of tics and biases that we do not see, and are part of the "wallpaper" of our lives?


(Hat Tip to Kevin Parlon for the above.)




A "non-racist" is complicit with racist. To be an antiracist, we need to understand how racism manifests ... how does a black or Asian person in Ireland "feel" racism.
  • For many black children, it means being harrassed and bullied at school, like being called "N*gger" or "Chink", then having any response laughed off "It was only a joke". The wounding starts early.
  • For teens and adults, it means getting the worse service in shops, bars and restaurants. Being ignored and made to wait until the white people are served. Being harrassed, like having a security guard follow you around a store, while pretending not to.
  • It means getting barracked and hassled in the street, "Paki!" "N*gger!" etc, with no one calling out the bullies (usually young teens).
  • It means getting undue attention from police, more frequent arrests and longer sentences.
  • It means having to be that much better than a white colleague or counterpart to get praised or noticed, or to get a job..
  • It means often being excluded, patronised and treated like a child, for example, by doctors or white health staff, or by the social welfare system.
Luckily, Ireland hs so far escaped the worst of systemic discrimination in employment and law enforcement. But if we are to suppress the rank odour of racism, then you have to open up to a tiny bit of wokeness, a little bit of activism.
  • Decide not to be part of any systemic racism. Make an act of self-determination in the true sense.
  • Ok, no need for drama, unless absolutely necessary.
  • Do a bit of self-examination
  • You could do worse than read some background on the experience of racism. Read at the two links above. Some good books have been published recently, though I have not read any since Barack Obama's Dreams of My Father, which is not about racism, but helps a sense of perspective. Books for kids and teens about race, racism and police violence
  • Watch a couple of films - like 10 Years a Slave, for a sense of history. Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing. Even a recommendation I saw during the week for In The Heat Of The Night, a Sidney Poitier- Rod Steiger vehicle of two very different cops forced into partnership.
  • Talk to your friends and spouse about racism.
  • Have The Conversation with your kids. Talk about what they see in school. Explain what is at stake. If we do not suppress racism in the next generation, we are only saving up a world of pain for our children.
  • Do not stand for any treatment of others in a racist manner - do not take advantage in shops. If you do not want to intervene when a person is hassled, at least comfort them.
  • Do none of the above. Think of something else.
  • I was in a hospital during the week, and appreciated the diversity of our wonderful Health Serivices frontline staff. Do something to show them your appreciation.
  • If you do not live up fully to your ideals, comfort youself. Move on, wait for the next. opportunity. This is a war of attrition, a guerrilla war, it does not depend on a single battle.
The stench of prejudice has to be eliminated, and the way to do it is to make it socially unacceptable even in small manifestations. It's the inkblot method, making small areas racism-free, and expanding. Start with yourself, your family and your community.
Nah, I'll stick to being a non-racist, don't want to end up a virtue signalling self righteous social justice warrior.
 

tsarbomb

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Whatever about some countries like Zimbabwe or Myanmar, there is no systematic racism in Ireland and it's not acceptable to the vast majority of people either. The term 'anti-racism' is just imported wokish rubbish that's designed to antagonise and divide people. Anyway, in terms of any form of discrimination that does exist in Ireland racism isn't the biggest problem by far. Having a thick inner city Dublin accent will mark you out for far more discrimination in this country than the colour of your skin ever will.
 

Mercurial

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How are we supposed to discuss racism on this website when the very word "racist" is banned when directed at other users?
 

owedtojoy

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How are we supposed to discuss racism on this website when the very word "racist" is banned when directed at other users?
Yes, it was a bad day when they banned witch hunts.

I think we need to focus on countering manifestations of racism rather than throwing the word around like confetti. It just becomes a devalued and meaningless term like "globalist" or "neo-conservative".

There has been some discussion, though, on the use of your favourite word.

  • A poster can be called out for posting opinions that seem racist to others .... however, it is preferable that the riposte be about the opinion, not the poster.
  • Calling another poster a racist (or homophobe, or transphobe, or antisemite) as an insult, like "di*khead" or "a**hole" is an infraction. Post deletion, with escalation if repeated.
  • The words are not necessarily banned, if used with substantive backing information with an intent to pursue debate with the poster in a positive context.
  • Racist tropes are off limits, if thrown about mindlessly e.g. criminality of blacks or immigrants, homosexuality linked to pedophilia, the Jewish blood libel, Jewish financiers etc
 

Super Caley

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Definition of racism (Merriam-Webster)
  1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
  2. Politically,
    1. a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principle
    2. a political or social system founded on racism
  3. Racial prejudice or discrimination
"I am not a racist" said a New York woman who called the police, when a black man asked her to leash her dog in a public park.

The world is full of non-racists, just as it is full of people who are not bad drivers, do not have body odour or who are seldom wrong. We do not see (or smell) ourselves as other do. So what if we are full of tics and biases that we do not see, and are part of the "wallpaper" of our lives?


(Hat Tip to Kevin Parlon for the above.)




A "non-racist" is complicit with racist. To be an antiracist, we need to understand how racism manifests ... how does a black or Asian person in Ireland "feel" racism.
  • For many black children, it means being harrassed and bullied at school, like being called "N*gger" or "Chink", then having any response laughed off "It was only a joke". The wounding starts early.
  • For teens and adults, it means getting the worse service in shops, bars and restaurants. Being ignored and made to wait until the white people are served. Being harrassed, like having a security guard follow you around a store, while pretending not to.
  • It means getting barracked and hassled in the street, "Paki!" "N*gger!" etc, with no one calling out the bullies (usually young teens).
  • It means getting undue attention from police, more frequent arrests and longer sentences.
  • It means having to be that much better than a white colleague or counterpart to get praised or noticed, or to get a job..
  • It means often being excluded, patronised and treated like a child, for example, by doctors or white health staff, or by the social welfare system.
Luckily, Ireland hs so far escaped the worst of systemic discrimination in employment and law enforcement. But if we are to suppress the rank odour of racism, then you have to open up to a tiny bit of wokeness, a little bit of activism.
  • Decide not to be part of any systemic racism. Make an act of self-determination in the true sense.
  • Ok, no need for drama, unless absolutely necessary.
  • Do a bit of self-examination
  • You could do worse than read some background on the experience of racism. Read at the two links above. Some good books have been published recently, though I have not read any since Barack Obama's Dreams of My Father, which is not about racism, but helps a sense of perspective. Books for kids and teens about race, racism and police violence
  • Watch a couple of films - like 10 Years a Slave, for a sense of history. Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing. Even a recommendation I saw during the week for In The Heat Of The Night, a Sidney Poitier- Rod Steiger vehicle of two very different cops forced into partnership.
  • Talk to your friends and spouse about racism.
  • Have The Conversation with your kids. Talk about what they see in school. Explain what is at stake. If we do not suppress racism in the next generation, we are only saving up a world of pain for our children.
  • Do not stand for any treatment of others in a racist manner - do not take advantage in shops. If you do not want to intervene when a person is hassled, at least comfort them.
  • Do none of the above. Think of something else.
  • I was in a hospital during the week, and appreciated the diversity of our wonderful Health Serivices frontline staff. Do something to show them your appreciation.
  • If you do not live up fully to your ideals, comfort youself. Move on, wait for the next. opportunity. This is a war of attrition, a guerrilla war, it does not depend on a single battle.
The stench of prejudice has to be eliminated, and the way to do it is to make it socially unacceptable even in small manifestations. It's the inkblot method, making small areas racism-free, and expanding. Start with yourself, your family and your community.
A very very bad idea.

The problem with being actively anti racist as you suggest is that doing so requires one to actively identify racism in others. Which requires one to be actively judgemental of others, which can very quickly degenerate into a McCarthyite witchhunt.

Furthermore, as you allude to yourself, we tend not to be the most objective when it comes to assessing ourselves and others. So who is to decide what actions do and do not constitute racism? The twitter mob?

Not to mention the "he who is without sin" problem; Does racism just involve white people doing bad stuff to non white people or, as other posters have already thrown back at you, can racism not work both ways, or indeed people can be discriminated against on the basis of a plethora of characteristics which have little or nothing to do with race, such as accent or sexual orientation etc. So why the emphasis on race at all, especially if the whole point is that race doesn't really matter? What we should be striving for is an inclusivity which is not defined in any partisan way.

Humans can be horrible to other humans for all sorts of reasons, sometimes, importantly and ironically, by accusing them of being what ever the prevailing evil thing is. So although I expect that you mean well, if you think about it for a moment, urging folk to be actively anti-racist, and hence actively seek out and condemn whatever they deem to be faults in others, is a recipe for conflict and could be construed as incitement to hatred.
 

Golah veNekhar

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I get posts deleted for supposed anti-Semitism quite frequently which are not at all anti-Semitic.

Poor Rashers gets smeared as at times a genocidal anti-Semitic all too often as well.
 

Splodge

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A very very bad idea.

The problem with being actively anti racist as you suggest is that doing so requires one to actively identify racism in others. Which requires one to be actively judgemental of others, which can very quickly degenerate into a McCarthyite witchhunt.

Furthermore, as you allude to yourself, we tend not to be the most objective when it comes to assessing ourselves and others. So who is to decide what actions do and do not constitute racism? The twitter mob?

Not to mention the "he who is without sin" problem; Does racism just involve white people doing bad stuff to non white people or, as other posters have already thrown back at you, can racism not work both ways, or indeed people can be discriminated against on the basis of a plethora of characteristics which have little or nothing to do with race, such as accent or sexual orientation etc. So why the emphasis on race at all, especially if the whole point is that race doesn't really matter? What we should be striving for is an inclusivity which is not defined in any partisan way.

Humans can be horrible to other humans for all sorts of reasons, sometimes, importantly and ironically, by accusing them of being what ever the prevailing evil thing is. So although I expect that you mean well, if you think about it for a moment, urging folk to be actively anti-racist, and hence actively seek out and condemn whatever they deem to be faults in others, is a recipe for conflict and could be construed as incitement to hatred.
You ignore the racist content from certain posters here and give out warnings when they are called what they are. I suppose calling Chinese people little yellow men isn’t racist.
 

Mercurial

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Yes, it was a bad day when they banned witch hunts.

I think we need to focus on countering manifestations of racism rather than throwing the word around like confetti. It just becomes a devalued and meaningless term like "globalist" or "neo-conservative".

There has been some discussion, though, on the use of your favourite word.
This is the exact same argument that was used during the marriage equality campaign as to why people shouldn't use words like "homophobe" and "homophobic".

When you make these arguments you deny marginalized people the opportunity to name our oppression when we see it. The meme that such terms become devalued is one that is pushed by racists, sexists, and homophobes themselves because they have an interest in people believing that those terms are devalued so that when those terms are applied to themsevles they won't have as much power as they do. It's all the worse when these rules are imposed by mods or administrators who are themselves members of the oppressing class.
 

Kevin Parlon

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The stench of prejudice has to be eliminated, and the way to do it is to make it socially unacceptable even in small manifestations. It's the inkblot method, making small areas racism-free, and expanding. Start with yourself, your family and your community.
It's sad to see people who clearly aren't political extremists fully onboarding "critical race theory"; an unfalsifiable theology complete with the notion of unexpungable original sin and which holds that it's literally impossible for racism to be completely absent from any situation. The "theory" purports to show us a way toward a better world with less division and more justice (of the social flavor). How's that working out so far?

Surely the goal here should be to be working towards a situation where a person's skin color is as inconsequential as their hair color? Looking past difference. "Anti-racism" sets about amplifying and making everything about "difference". It's toxic, unfalsifiable divisive poison.

Example (from article)

"For example, if a black customer and a white customer entered a store at the same time, and the white sales assistant approached the white customer to offer help first, this could be identified as racism because it prioritized the white person’s needs (see also, centering). However, if the sales assistant approached the black customer first, this could also be identified as racism because it could be read as indicating a distrust of black people and unwillingness to have them browse the shelves unsupervised. The shop assistant’s perception of her own motivations are irrelevant, and, to be a conscientious antiracist, she would need to admit her racism and pledge to do better."
 

Kevin Parlon

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I get posts deleted for supposed anti-Semitism quite frequently which are not at all anti-Semitic.

Poor Rashers gets smeared as at times a genocidal anti-Semitic all too often as well.
"Poor rashers" spent months on the holocaust memorial thread in a full throated defense of holocaust denialism.
 

Mercurial

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It's sad to see people who clearly aren't political extremists fully onboarding "critical race theory"; an unfalsifiable theology complete with the notion of unexpungable original sin and which holds that it's literally impossible for racism to be completely absent from any situation. The "theory" purports to show us a way toward a better world with less division and more justice (of the social flavor). How's that working out so far?

Surely the goal here should be to be working towards a situation where a person's skin color is as inconsequential as their hair color? Looking past difference. "Anti-racism" sets about amplifying and making everything about "difference". It's toxic, unfalsifiable divisive poison.

Example (from article)

"For example, if a black customer and a white customer entered a store at the same time, and the white sales assistant approached the white customer to offer help first, this could be identified as racism because it prioritized the white person’s needs (see also, centering). However, if the sales assistant approached the black customer first, this could also be identified as racism because it could be read as indicating a distrust of black people and unwillingness to have them browse the shelves unsupervised. The shop assistant’s perception of her own motivations are irrelevant, and, to be a conscientious antiracist, she would need to admit her racism and pledge to do better."
If P.ie really wants to be anti-racist then they should ban this user.
 

owedtojoy

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It's sad to see people who clearly aren't political extremists fully onboarding "critical race theory"; an unfalsifiable theology complete with the notion of unexpungable original sin and which holds that it's literally impossible for racism to be completely absent from any situation. The "theory" purports to show us a way toward a better world with less division and more justice (of the social flavor). How's that working out so far?

Surely the goal here should be to be working towards a situation where a person's skin color is as inconsequential as their hair color? Looking past difference. "Anti-racism" sets about amplifying and making everything about "difference". It's toxic, unfalsifiable divisive poison.

Example (from article)

"For example, if a black customer and a white customer entered a store at the same time, and the white sales assistant approached the white customer to offer help first, this could be identified as racism because it prioritized the white person’s needs (see also, centering). However, if the sales assistant approached the black customer first, this could also be identified as racism because it could be read as indicating a distrust of black people and unwillingness to have them browse the shelves unsupervised. The shop assistant’s perception of her own motivations are irrelevant, and, to be a conscientious antiracist, she would need to admit her racism and pledge to do better."
I say we need to forge a coalition to end racism, and seeking people to criticise, instead of chipping in to do your part, perpetuates it.

Either you want to get on with it, or you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat. If you are not up for it, butt out.

Somehow, I do not think adopting your brand of ideological purity is going to do the trick. Or Mercurial's either, for that matter.
 

Mercurial

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I say we need to forge a coalition to end racism, and seeking people to criticise, instead of chipping in to do your part, perpetuates it.

Either you want to get on with it, or you don't. There is more than one way to skin a cat. If you are not up for it, butt out.

Somehow, I do not think adopting your brand of ideological purity is going to do the trick. Or Mercurial's either, for that matter.
What experiences have you as a member of a marginalized community that you think you can lecture the rest of us on how best to respond to it?
 

owedtojoy

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I must say that lately I'm getting a heavy stench that's coming from all these goodie goodie anti racists with their cheap protests that of course requires no self sacrifice from them, but gains them relief from lockdown. I'm not racist but I'm definitely anti-anti- racist.
The point of the OP is that amounts to a position that perpetuates racism.

Civil Rights were never won by staying home and watching the demonstrations on TV.
 

Golah veNekhar

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"Poor rashers" spent months on the holocaust memorial thread in a full throated defense of holocaust denialism.
That is not necessarily anti-Semitism though at all, yes a lot of anti-Semites are also "holocaust deniers", but by no means all are, and not all "holocaust deniers" are anti-Semites- there are a lot of holes in the official story, personally having actually examined most of the intelligent arguments on both sides, and there are a lot of crazies on both sides of this debate, I am not sure what to believe. It is not nearly a cut and dried as people like to pretend.

Making out that "holocaust denialism" in inherently anti-Semitic is the worst type of "Political Correctness". How come you are all in favour of "PC" when it comes to Jews but against it when it comes to Muslims?
 


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