Don't be "Not A Racist", Be an Antiracist

owedtojoy

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Not so fast

Assuming that the 95% white figure comes from the 2011 census

if you dig into the data, it is evident that the non-whites are disproportionately young. People who occupy the sort of positions he listed, tend to be disproportionately experienced and thus old.

Also, the non-white population are disproportionately born outside of Scotland, hence being first generation arrivals might be less expected to occupy the type of official roles mentioned. His list is of course prone to selection bias. I'd be interested to see the "non-white" representation at the upper eschelons of other professions, such as health.

Also it's interesting that you go on about "blacks". Most non-whites in Scotland are Asian, with really very few blacks.

So two points here;

1. If the demographics of a selected subset of the population does not perfectly match that of the general population this does not necessarily imply systematic discrimination. There may well be more mundane explanations.

2. Scotland has enough problems with NI style sectarianism, and to a lesser extent discrimination against its Asian minority, without pretending that it has a US style Black-White slavery problem as well.
Actually, I agree with your Point 1.

I still think he was making a fair point, and the accusation of reverse racism is OTT.

Points like his are a form of negotiation, of a minority starting to take hesitant (or pushy!) steps into the corridors of power. It should be welcomed and discussed, not rejected.
 
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owedtojoy

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I didn’t call you anti-Semitic. I implied that you avoided using an anti-Semitic trope because “critical race theory” (which you have admitted you believe to be the same thing as “cultural Marxism”) is usually associated with women and people of colour.

I then implied that supporting the notoriously racist Israeli military is perhaps not great evidence of you not being a racist yourself.
I shy away from "critical * theories", which I associate with earnest academics discussing racism in Jane Austen novels.

The Post Modern Thing passed me by, but it had at its core something I agree with "Distrust Grand Narratives".

The Whig View of History (making the past a sequence of steps to an inevitable present), or Marxist Class Struggle, are both Grand Narratives of different stripes. But both are probably equally wrong, or partially right, whichever. but contingency, personality and local variations have a key role in History, too.

So we can jettison Golah's Perpetual Darwinian Struggle, or neo-Conservatism's view of the Triumph of Liberal Democracy as roadmaps. While there are always overall long-term trends, there is a lot to to said for "me and thou, here and now" immediacy as well. It may not be about the Grand Narrative.

So I would not be an uncritical (pardon the pun) accepter of Critical Race Theory, but not a rejector either. It may even contain enough truth to be useful in the short term.
 

Mercurial

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A so the contemporary "Israeli" (an anti-Christian and colonial expression) military is notoriously racist (which it is) but the Kibbutzniks were wonderful, well let tell you with their castrations and incredibly sick brutality the Jewish colonial military forces were a LOT more savage and racist when it was the "White" oh, so civilized Kibbutzniks who were doing the work as opposed to the North Africans. Now I can understand your dislike to North African Jewry given how a lot of them pride themselves on homosexuality not existing within their ranks (which is untrue) and believe that homosexual activity merits the death penalty (this whole thing about "people being executed because they are gay" is nonsense- no one believes in executing anyone for sexual temptations) which is after all laid down in the written Torah and none of Chazal try to get out of this part of it, but that does not get around the fact that if anything they were treated by the "White" Labour Zionists even more brutally and culturally genocided effectively as the Ethiopian Jews are now in the Jewish colonial State. Bibi has nothing on Ben Gurion in the brutality and sheer nastiness stakes- ultimately Bibi is "just" a crook. Unless you are prepared to condemn the Kibbutzniks and the whole colonial enterprise in Palestine you have no right to attack the North Africans no matter how racist they are.
I don’t know anything about kibbutzim except that they are sometimes offered as example of successful socialist societies on a small scale.
 

Mercurial

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I shy away from "critical * theories", which I associate with earnest academics discussing racism in Jane Austen novels.

The Post Modern Thing passed me by, but it had at its core something I agree with "Distrust Grand Narratives".

The Whig View of History (making the past a sequence of steps to an inevitable present), or Marxist Class Struggle, are both Grand Narratives of different stripes. But both are probably equally wrong, or partially right, whichever. but contingency, personality and local variations have a key role in History, too.

So we can jettison Golah's Perpetual Darwinian Struggle, or neo-Conservatism's view of the Triumph of Liberal Democracy as roadmaps. While there are always overall long-term trends, there is a lot to to said for "me and thou, here and now" immediacy as well. It may not be about the Grand Narrative.

So I would not be an uncritical (pardon the pun) accepter of Critical Race Theory, but not a rejector either. It may even contain enough truth to be useful in the short term.
The thing I find really funny about views like Kevin’s is that the kind of anti-racist rhetoric that we’re seeing atm is so completely bland and uncontroversial that you will find it all across the left, including the most moderate forms of liberalism. You don’t need to read Crenshaw to support BLM, just John Rawls (or even JS Mill) will do fine.
 

cunnyfunt

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I then implied that supporting the notoriously racist Israeli military is perhaps not great evidence of you not being a racist yourself.
So by that logic, if you support the palestinian cause, you support their notoriously anti semetic views?
 

Mercurial

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So by that logic, if you support the palestinian cause, you support their notoriously anti semetic views?
I don’t accept that the Palestinian people are “notoriously antisemitic” (nor that the Israeli people are “notoriously racist”). I’m referring specifically to the Israeli army, which has been and continues to be complicit in all sorts of human rights abuses.
 

cunnyfunt

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I don’t accept that the Palestinian people are “notoriously antisemitic” (nor that the Israeli people are “notoriously racist”). I’m referring specifically to the Israeli army, which has been and continues to be complicit in all sorts of human rights abuses.
Do you consider America to be a racist country?
 

talkingshop

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Like rape, murder and theft?
Only a small minority murder, rape and steal. All countries have laws against these - they're anti-social, and bad for society as a whole. But maybe tribal or ethnic "identities" - preferring your own "tribe" - is natural for almost everyone, and is not necessarily a *bad* thing, or at least not anything to get very worked up about. 🤷‍♀️
 

Mercurial

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Only a small minority murder, rape and steal. All countries have laws against these - they're anti-social, and bad for society as a whole. But maybe tribal or ethnic "identities" - preferring your own "tribe" - is natural for almost everyone, and is not necessarily a *bad* thing, or at least not anything to get very worked up about. 🤷‍♀️
You live in the Republic of Ireland.
 

cunnyfunt

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Like rape, murder and theft?
These are violent crimes. The majority of racist incidents around the western world are usually/thankfully not violent.
These usually are intolerance prejudice meanness and hatefulness. It is utopian to think you'll rid society of this, no more than you would of any prejudices that don't involve racism.
All society can do is strive to limit incidents and prosecute were appropriate.
 

Mercurial

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These are violent crimes. The majority of racist incidents around the western world are usually/thankfully not violent.
These usually are intolerance prejudice meanness and hatefulness. It is utopian to think you'll rid society of this, no more than you would of any prejudices that don't involve racism.
All society can do is strive to limit incidents and prosecute were appropriate.
So, just like those other things I mentioned,
 

Mercurial

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That is laudable. For me the world is full of people who suffer persecution in different forms, blacks and whites.
Of course racism is not the only form of oppression that exists.
 


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