Down Syndrome: The "Final Solution"

ireallyshouldknowbetter

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
10,015
This is an interesting article (this outlet has a pro-life bias), reporting a remarkable speech given in Congress by an actor with Down syndrome warning about selective abortion being a "final solution", pointing out that almost 100% of fetuses with Down syndrome are being aborted in Iceland, mentioning South Korea and Denmark as also having very high termination rates.

POWERFULLY POIGNANT: Man With Down Syndrome Tells Congress That Abortion Advocates Push 'Final Solution' | Daily Wire

On Wednesday, Frank Stephens, who has Down syndrome and also has had a successful career as an actor, gave a powerfully moving and poignant speech before Congress as he combated those who would abort fetuses diagnosed with Down syndrome, telling a congressional committee that proponents of aborting fetuses with Down syndrome are pushing a “final solution” and asserting that his life is "worth living."
Although this is not necessarily an issue for Ireland at the moment, given our abortion laws, it is a troubling ethical issue. I can see why parents might choose not to proceed with such a pregnancy, but the practice of eugenics is morally questionable at the very least, and as this speaker points out, people with Down syndrome are capable of living happy, fulfilling lives.

In the future, we may see the effective end of Down syndrome through selective abortions, and in the countries where that is already the case, it is happening silently. I think if Stephens speech has the effect of opening a debate on this issue, it will have achieved a lot.
 


ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,093
Let's try and break this down.

If you had a choice of a healthy baby or a Down Syndrome baby, most would choose the healthy baby.
Is this immoral? No. Probably not.

If abortion becomes an accepted social norm, is aborting a baby with Downs immoral? Probably not any more than aborting a healthy child for whatever reason.

It's a tough one all the same.
 

razorblade

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
8,090
Being pro choice myself i will always support the will of the parents and if that's termination then so be it.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
A study in 2011, found that the overwhelming majority of people with DS surveyed indicate they live happy and fulfilling lives. Yet countries with both liberal and conservative abortion regimes allow their lives to be destroyed up to birth.

I don't get it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21910246/

Anyway, Frank says it all ...

[video=youtube;yQJEoRhkapw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJEoRhkapw[/video]


Karen Gaffeny is a powerful speaker too ...

[video=youtube;HwxjoBQdn0s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwxjoBQdn0s[/video]



Open your minds people please ...

[video=youtube;AAPmGW-GDHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAPmGW-GDHA[/video]



The BBC have covered this too ...

[video=youtube;F-SSIwVZeWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-SSIwVZeWs[/video]




Meanwhile ... this is happening in France :mad:

http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/257024-france-bans-advert-downs-children-will-ireland-follow-suit.html
 
Last edited:

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
55,055
Another abortion thread? Youreallyshouldknowbetter.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,093
A study in 2011, found that the overwhelming majority of people with DS surveyed indicate they live happy and fulfilling lives. Yet countries with both liberal and conservative abortion regimes allow their lives to be destroyed up to birth.

I don't get it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21910246/
Parents may legitimately want their child to have their own children, get married and have a rewarding career. Not a child that would need a lot of care and a job in the local cinema. It's harsh on those terms but as society moves towards little restrictions on abortion and the technology to spot problems in pregnancy, there is only going to be one conclusion.
 

ireallyshouldknowbetter

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
10,015
Parents may legitimately want their child to have their own children, get married and have a rewarding career. Not a child that would need a lot of care and a job in the local cinema. It's harsh on those terms but as society moves towards little restrictions on abortion and the technology to spot problems in pregnancy, there is only going to be one conclusion.
Down syndrome is a spectrum and some people with it can live independently with very little care. The subject of the OP is an actor, not a cinema worker.

I am also not sure why you deem parents wanting "their child to have their own children, get married and have a rewarding career" to be legitimate. Why should a child live their lives to satisfy their parents? The only thing any good parent worries about is whether their child is happy and safe. The 'rewarding career' bit has more to do with boasting to the neighbours than any legitimate welfare concerns.
 

MsDaisyC

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
4,089
I wonder would all these pro Down Syndrome people support sexual agency for those living with DS? People living with DS have sexual urges too.

Would they support a woman or girl with DS who wanted an abortion?

How about the support they'd give to a person with DS who was gay or trans?

Or are they really just cute little poster children exploited by antichoice groups as if they were nothing more than andrex puppies?
 

Half Nelson

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
21,430
Eugenics is back with a bang - DS, disability, ffa, female, or just plain unwanted; it's open season.

We all know how it ended the last time it went mainstream, don't we?
 

Notachipanoaktree

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
8,137
This is an interesting article (this outlet has a pro-life bias), reporting a remarkable speech given in Congress by an actor with Down syndrome warning about selective abortion being a "final solution", pointing out that almost 100% of fetuses with Down syndrome are being aborted in Iceland, mentioning South Korea and Denmark as also having very high termination rates.

POWERFULLY POIGNANT: Man With Down Syndrome Tells Congress That Abortion Advocates Push 'Final Solution' | Daily Wire



Although this is not necessarily an issue for Ireland at the moment, given our abortion laws, it is a troubling ethical issue. I can see why parents might choose not to proceed with such a pregnancy, but the practice of eugenics is morally questionable at the very least, and as this speaker points out, people with Down syndrome are capable of living happy, fulfilling lives.

In the future, we may see the effective end of Down syndrome through selective abortions, and in the countries where that is already the case, it is happening silently. I think if Stephens speech has the effect of opening a debate on this issue, it will have achieved a lot.
I am banned from Repeal the 8th for at least 2 years now for expressing such an opinion. P.ie, Petajack and co have some answering to do.


The world will be a dull barren 'lifeless' wilderness, full of hags, witches, and the other Accountants, Lawyers, Entrepreneurs 'n' Politicians without you honey.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
Parents may legitimately want their child to have their own children, get married and have a rewarding career. Not a child that would need a lot of care and a job in the local cinema. It's harsh on those terms but as society moves towards little restrictions on abortion and the technology to spot problems in pregnancy, there is only going to be one conclusion.
You don't get to choose how your child turns out. That's what life is about.

I don't know if my children will end up with mental health problems, addiction, violence. These human beings have one extra chromosome, many of them are better people than some of the fúckers who post on P.ie.

You really believe that disability and/or IQ in a human means their a lesser human?
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
47,680
I wonder would all these pro Down Syndrome people support sexual agency for those living with DS? People living with DS have sexual urges too.

Would they support a woman or girl with DS who wanted an abortion?

How about the support they'd give to a person with DS who was gay or trans?

Or are they really just cute little poster children exploited by antichoice groups as if they were nothing more than andrex puppies?
Lets start with if we see their value as humans and we let them live, protect them eh Daisy ...
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
29,142
Twitter
No
Personally my hopes for a Final Solution run more to rounding up the last of the moon-howlers in the state and shutting them up in the re-opened Letterfrack run by the Little Sisters of the Divine Uppercut.

Rifle-butts hammering on doors at 4am, get on ze truck, raus, raus, yes you can take the feckin' beads and so forth.
 

Half Nelson

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
21,430
I wonder would all these pro Down Syndrome people support sexual agency for those living with DS? People living with DS have sexual urges too.

Would they support a woman or girl with DS who wanted an abortion?

How about the support they'd give to a person with DS who was gay or trans?

Or are they really just cute little poster children exploited by antichoice groups as if they were nothing more than andrex puppies?
The philosophy of despair... from a desperate philosopher.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,093
You don't get to choose how your child turns out. That's what life is about.

I don't know if my children will end up with mental health problems, addiction, violence. These human beings have one extra chromosome, many of them are better people than some of the fúckers who post on P.ie.

You really believe that disability and/or IQ in a human means their a lesser human?
Eh no. Where have I said that? My point is, it is probably natural for parents to prefer a healthy baby at birth than a Downs baby all other things being equal.
 

Notachipanoaktree

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
8,137
You don't get to choose how your child turns out. That's what life is about.

I don't know if my children will end up with mental health problems, addiction, violence. These human beings have one extra chromosome, many of them are better people than some of the fúckers who post on P.ie.

You really believe that disability and/or IQ in a human means their a lesser human?
Given that low IQ is the preferred outcome from our education system (see Lumpy T above) and has been for 26 years now. I don't see why they, those who have graduated into leading roles in our nasty little society, have a problem with Down Syndrome
 

MsDaisyC

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
4,089
Lets start with if we see their value as humans and we let them live, protect them eh Daisy ...
So your answer is no. They can remain andrex puppies, but god forbid we have to let them have sex! Good job the Lunacy Regulation of 1871 was updated to the 21st century to protect them from unscrupulous people who would exploit them. Someday I hope the legislation will stretch to stopping antichoice groups exploiting children with DS, like stealing their pictures and using them in poster campaigns etc
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
Abortion is not the final solution for downs syndrome as it can occur in any pregnancy at any time and any place. It is wrong.

I understand older women have a higher chance of having a downs syndrome baby.

Perhaps there will soon be a final solution: repair while the foetus is still in the womb and the child is born healthy.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top