Dr. doesn't agree that a dying woman should receive an abortion - Eamonn McGuinness

sadmal

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It seems a little unfair to quote him from 17 years ago as any views he holds may well have substantially changed since then. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall so on what grounds did he challenge it? Often things can be challenged on procedural grounds rather than points of principle.
Still the fact that he performed an abortion when he deemed it medically necessary is lost on you, so much for the 'chilling effect'
I find it hard to believe he performed an abortion to save a mother's life. Pro-life doctors in Ireland have always insisted that it is never necessary to abort to save a mother's life and Dr McGuiness in part of that group.
 


Fats_Portnoy

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I find it hard to believe he performed an abortion to save a mother's life. Pro-life doctors in Ireland have always insisted that it is never necessary to abort to save a mother's life and Dr McGuiness in part of that group.
They are playing with words a bit. They mean intentionally setting out to abort rather than being forced into it by the circumstances that arise.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

I find it hard to believe he performed an abortion to save a mother's life. Pro-life doctors in Ireland have always insisted that it is never necessary to abort to save a mother's life and Dr McGuiness in part of that group.
He referred to a termination, which is not necessarily an abortion. The pregnancy could, for example, been terminated by way of a C-Section.
 

Emily Davison

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It seems a little unfair to quote him from 17 years ago as any views he holds may well have substantially changed since then. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall so on what grounds did he challenge it? Often things can be challenged on procedural grounds rather than points of principle.
Still the fact that he performed an abortion when he deemed it medically necessary is lost on you, so much for the 'chilling effect'
I'm unfair to him. A man in control of women who are pregnant. A woman whose birth options were controlled by him. And he wanted to control the Irish medical council so much that he went all the way to the High Court to get his way based on his Catholic doctrine rather than his medical training.

By the way, a pro lifer stating that he carried out terminations means what exactly.

a) Does that mean an abortion. In what hospital and in what year and according to which medical guidelines.

b) Alternatively does he mean a pregnancy was induced early.

c) Third option, does he mean a c section and did the woman consent or was she actually given any choice in the matter.
 

Fats_Portnoy

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I'm unfair to him. A man in control of women who are pregnant. A woman whose birth options were controlled by him. And he wanted to control the Irish medical council so much that he went all the way to the High Court to get his way based on his Catholic doctrine rather than his medical training.

By the way, a pro lifer stating that he carried out terminations means what exactly.

a) Does that mean an abortion. In what hospital and in what year and according to which medical guidelines.

b) Alternatively does he mean a pregnancy was induced early.

c) Third option, does he mean a c section and did the woman consent or was she actually given any choice in the matter.
did you actually read the article? I couldn't but sailor filled me an d all the objections raised looked reasonable: Guidelines not properly underpinned by legislation and possible procedures not correctly followed.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

I'm unfair to him. A man in control of women who are pregnant. A woman whose birth options were controlled by him. And he wanted to control the Irish medical council so much that he went all the way to the High Court to get his way based on his Catholic doctrine rather than his medical training.

By the way, a pro lifer stating that he carried out terminations means what exactly.

a) Does that mean an abortion. In what hospital and in what year and according to which medical guidelines.

b) Alternatively does he mean a pregnancy was induced early.

c) Third option, does he mean a c section and did the woman consent or was she actually given any choice in the matter.
You're not addressing the concerns raised regarding what you have suggested in your OP. You need to check your facts and clarify as necessary.
 

Aindriu

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He referred to a termination, which is not necessarily an abortion. The pregnancy could, for example, been terminated by way of a C-Section.
And if the foetus being delivered by C section is incapable of external life? It dies so it remains abortion. You are playing with words.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

And if the foetus being delivered by C section is incapable of external life? It dies so it remains abortion. You are playing with words.
Not at all - I support abortion in such cases, but the termination he referred to could have been an abortion in the normally understood sense or it could have been 28 week C-Section. If the OPer had researched the case before going off half-cocked we would not need to engage in such speculation.
 

Emily Davison

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There was a letter much quoted and bruited about this site last week from a bunch of gynoes taking a Forced Birther line on repeal of the 8th and throughout the letter they only referred to delivery of already-dead foetuses. Which addressed neither the current debate or acknowledged the times when abortion is necessary.

I'm beginning to wonder just how many members of the O'Taliban are tucked away in Irish medical settings. I'm also quite concerned that a bunch of gynoes of the FB persuasion don't actually seem to understand what abortion is- which is surprising given their specialised subject.
Dr. Eamonn doesn't even want women whose foetus had died to be aborted. That was the second strand to his court case. Which of course is linked into what happened to Savita. Her foetus had no chance, it was doomed, but because it was alive, pro lifers believe that there should be no intervention. The facebook website In her Shoes tells the stories of actual women and their treatment at the hands of Irish doctors when they are pregnant and things are going wrong.
 

sadmal

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He referred to a termination, which is not necessarily an abortion. The pregnancy could, for example, been terminated by way of a C-Section.
Doctors carry out emergency C sections every day but they usually don't give press conferences about it. The impression I got from Dr McGuinness was that he carried out an abortion/ termination to save a mother 's life and the baby didn't survive.

Now we discover he went to court in 2001 to prevent resolutions being put to the Medical Council allowing doctors to carry out termination/abortion to save a woman's life. Franky it doesn't make any sense.

It's a pity he wasn't asked to clarify this at the press conference.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Dr. Eamonn doesn't even want women whose foetus had died to be aborted. That was the second strand to his court case. Which of course is linked into what happened to Savita. Her foetus had no chance, it was doomed, but because it was alive, pro lifers believe that there should be no intervention. The facebook website In her Shoes tells the stories of actual women and their treatment at the hands of Irish doctors when they are pregnant and things are going wrong.
Stop trying to dodge the need to clarify your OP. This is not your first time running with a story that you couldn't back up with the full facts.
 

Emily Davison

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In fact it would appear that his objection to the resolutions was based on their not being based on the law applying at the time. In that he was correct in that at the time the 8th had not been legislated for!
What an idiot. He didn't suceed in his court case did he. Are you now saying the medical guidelines passed by the doctors were illegal?
 

making waves

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It isn't that long ago that it was at the discretion of a doctor as to whether or not he/she would prescribe the pill to women, nothing to do with medicine, but based on personal beliefs.
In Ireland today - a pharmacist can use the excuse of 'personal beliefs' to refuse to give a woman the morning after pill
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Doctors carry out emergency C sections every day but they usually don't give press conferences about it. The impression I got from Dr McGuinness was that he carried out an abortion/ termination to save a mother 's life and the baby didn't survive.

Now we discover he went to court in 2001 to prevent resolutions being put to the Medical Council allowing doctors to carry out termination/abortion to save a woman's life. Franky it doesn't make any sense.

It's a pity he wasn't asked to clarify this at the press conference.
And his reason for this was that he didn't think they had a basis in the existing law, but really this is an issue that the OPer would need to clarify.
 

Emily Davison

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did you actually read the article? I couldn't but sailor filled me an d all the objections raised looked reasonable: Guidelines not properly underpinned by legislation and possible procedures not correctly followed.
The High court threw his case out.

Are you this idiotic that you'd listen to Sailor, a poster who would put his daughter on the pill, move his pregnant wife out of one Irish hospital because she was in danger and has zero problem with the 8th as he would just whisk said wife and daughter to England if they needed an abortion.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

What an idiot. He didn't suceed in his court case did he. Are you now saying the medical guidelines passed by the doctors were illegal?
No - but he had sufficient doubt about the legal basis for the resolutions to warrant his action. And he also was not happy that internal procedures had been followed. You didn't read your link, did you?
 
D

Deleted member 17573

The High court threw his case out.

Are you this idiotic that you'd listen to Sailor, a poster who would put his daughter on the pill, move his pregnant wife out of one Irish hospital because she was in danger and has zero problem with the 8th as he would just whisk said wife and daughter to England if they needed an abortion.
The white flag is hoisted.
 

Buchaill Dana

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No - but he had sufficient doubt about the legal basis for the resolutions to warrant his action. And he also was not happy that internal procedures had been followed. You didn't read your link, did you?
But that still makes him a hypocrite
 

Lagertha

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In Ireland today - a pharmacist can use the excuse of 'personal beliefs' to refuse to give a woman the morning after pill
But nowadays a woman can go to any other pharmacy and get it. I started taking the pill in the 1990's and if my GP had refused to prescribe it for me I'd have had to go to another GP in the town which would have been really embarrassing in those days. In many towns in Ireland there might only have been one GP. Millennial's have no idea of what life was like in those days because they can walk into any supermarket or pharmacy or go online and buy every kind of style, colour and flavour of condom without giving it a second thought and without anyone batting an eyelid. People had to fight tooth and nail for that back then against the same mindset that exists today.
 

Emily Davison

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No - but he had sufficient doubt about the legal basis for the resolutions to warrant his action. And he also was not happy that internal procedures had been followed. You didn't read your link, did you?
Come off it Sailor he's a pro lifer is the only reason he went to court. And yes I did read my link. I'm now subscribed to the IT.

Eamonn is so rabidly pro life instead of wanting to save women's lives who were going to die because of their pregnancy he wanted them to be prevented from having a life saving abortion.

Love them both = tosh. It's all about forced birth and damn the mother. Let her die for Jesus.
 


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