Draconian Inheritance Tax

Factorem

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Dec 15, 2008
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567
I predict inheritance tax changes to be the headliner in the forthcoming budget.

The current threshold of €441k is now too high as house prices have dropped a good 30% with a lot more to go. The inheritance tax regime needs to change dramatically in order to reflect the dramatic changes in the property market.

I expect the inheritance tax rate to be brought back to 1990s levels and the threshold reduced.

€300k to €400k threshold and 30% to 40% tax is what I'm forecasting.

Side note: if the government think they'll get away with screwing the PAYE worker whilst leaving open all the tax loop-holes for company directors/"exiles"/farmers/etc., they might as well put the gardai/army on advance notice for civil unrest.
 


FortyCoats

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Jan 1, 2009
Messages
185
I predict inheritance tax changes to be the headliner in the forthcoming budget.

The current threshold of €441k is now too high as house prices have dropped a good 30% with a lot more to go. The inheritance tax regime needs to change dramatically in order to reflect the dramatic changes in the property market.

I expect the inheritance tax rate to be brought back to 1990s levels and the threshold reduced.

€300k to €400k threshold and 30% to 40% tax is what I'm forecasting.

Side note: if the government think they'll get away with screwing the PAYE worker whilst leaving open all the tax loop-holes for company directors/"exiles"/farmers/etc., they might as well put the gardai/army on advance notice for civil unrest.
No way in hell inheritence tax will go to 30%.
 

Ah Well

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
1,228
I predict inheritance tax changes to be the headliner in the forthcoming budget.

The current threshold of €441k is now too high as house prices have dropped a good 30% with a lot more to go. The inheritance tax regime needs to change dramatically in order to reflect the dramatic changes in the property market.

I expect the inheritance tax rate to be brought back to 1990s levels and the threshold reduced.

€300k to €400k threshold and 30% to 40% tax is what I'm forecasting.

Side note: if the government think they'll get away with screwing the PAYE worker whilst leaving open all the tax loop-holes for company directors/"exiles"/farmers/etc., they might as well put the gardai/army on advance notice for civil unrest.
Capital Acquisitions Tax/CAT (Inheritance and Gift Tax) threshold rates are not €441K ... it depends on the relationship of the Beneficiary to the Disponer;

For 2009;

Group A - Child/foster child/minor child of a deceased child it is €542544
Group B - Lineal Ancestor or Lineal Descendant : Brother, Sister, child of brother or sister it is €54254
Group C - Others it is €27127

Prior gifts/inheritances may also be taken into account which may lower one's exemption thresholds above -> bigger chance of getting a CAT hit.

It's also not that long back in time when CAT went up depending on value to a rate of 40% .... it fell down a standard 20% in recent times .... climbed back up to 22% for gifts/inheritances taken on/after 20 Nov 2008

In times when monetary values for assets were nowhere near the rises in levels in the past decade or so and coupled with the severe rates of CAT up to 40% during such times, it was a prohibitory tax on many Estates and Beneficiaries. Putting in place of Inheritance Tax Policies to pay the Tax would have covered the hit such Beneficiaries would take (but the Premiums on those would have been considerable so often not taken out) so Beneficiaries often would have got a nasty shock when it came to getting their entitlement in the hand - unless of course the Disponer spread their Estate around to various parties so as to allow the using up of as many different thresholds for CAT exemption as possible.

It's only really kids who have escaped CAT from the 1/2 million euro approx threshold granted for recent years. Bros and Sis or non related would still have been taking CAT hits anyway if they got substantial benefits.

Personally, I do think this is one area they may hit on Tuesday. But I don't expect to see a drastic alteration/manipulation of the threshold amounts - if they drastically lower the Group A exemption (the kid's one) there'll be murder. I'd be more inclined to think that they may just raise the CAT rate again up from 22% to what I do not know, perhaps 25%. It increased from 20 to 22% from last November - logic would dictate that it's a prime candidate to be increased again.
 

Cael

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Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
13,304
I predict inheritance tax changes to be the headliner in the forthcoming budget.

The current threshold of €441k is now too high as house prices have dropped a good 30% with a lot more to go. The inheritance tax regime needs to change dramatically in order to reflect the dramatic changes in the property market.

I expect the inheritance tax rate to be brought back to 1990s levels and the threshold reduced.

€300k to €400k threshold and 30% to 40% tax is what I'm forecasting.

Side note: if the government think they'll get away with screwing the PAYE worker whilst leaving open all the tax loop-holes for company directors/"exiles"/farmers/etc., they might as well put the gardai/army on advance notice for civil unrest.

You have to realise that FF are not a political party, but merely a front organisation for the landed ruling class. You will see a lot of broken heads on the streets before Fianna Fail do anything to upset the landed elite.
 

Factorem

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567
You have to realise that FF are not a political party, but merely a front organisation for the landed ruling class. You will see a lot of broken heads on the streets before Fianna Fail do anything to upset the landed elite.
If they try and screw the small self-employed business man (i.e. under €100k a year) and the PAYE worker, they shouldn't be surprised if their tax receipts mysteriously decrease and lots of workers are on the streets protesting.

Why pay into a system that's inherently unfair? Why not move to another jurisdiction where everything is cheaper: personal taxation, VAT, cars, car tax, tolls, bin charges, food, housing, etc.

IMO, the inheritance tax for the landed classes issue is going to kick-off, big time. And rightly so.
 

Factorem

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567
Personally, I do think this is one area they may hit on Tuesday. But I don't expect to see a drastic alteration/manipulation of the threshold amounts - if they drastically lower the Group A exemption (the kid's one) there'll be murder. I'd be more inclined to think that they may just raise the CAT rate again up from 22% to what I do not know, perhaps 25%. It increased from 20 to 22% from last November - logic would dictate that it's a prime candidate to be increased again.
House prices have fallen. Dramatically. They have to make drastic changes to the Group A exemption in order to keep incomes afloat.
 

Factorem

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567
I see absolutely nothing wrong with a 40% tax on inheritance.
Do you see nothing wrong with hating rich people?

Why should you pay tax @ 40% on money that was already taxed in the first place?

Also, do see anything wrong when one section of society don't have to pay it, whilst another effectively get off scot free?
 

Dreaded_Estate

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Do you see nothing wrong with hating rich people?

Why should you pay tax @ 40% on money that was already taxed in the first place?

Also, do see anything wrong when one section of society don't have to pay it, whilst another effectively get off scot free?
I don't hate rich people but I think inheritance tax is an area where significant taxes can be raised with zero negative effects on the productive economy. Very few taxes or spending cuts have that going for them.
 

Factorem

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I don't hate rich people but I think inheritance tax is an area where significant taxes can be raised with zero negative effects on the productive economy. Very few taxes or spending cuts have that going for them.
So sons & daughters of farmers should be exempt from inheritance tax then?
 

LeftOfCentre

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Oct 10, 2007
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I believe that all Inheritance over 50,000 should be taxed @ 60% (Unless its an unsold family home).

The Wealthy elderly get a fantastic deal In Ireland,,,,, We should be encouraging them to put their hand in their substantially large pockets and not allow them to pich every penny so they can pass it on to their free loading off spring.

Being able to inherit 13.5 times the average industrial wage tax free is a joke.

The argument that there was already tax paid on the money is just Juvenile, , , there has been tax paid several times on ALL money that one uses.
 

Factorem

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The argument that there was already tax paid on the money is just Juvenile, , , there has been tax paid several times on ALL money that one uses.
:eek:

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Tax @ 60% on money that's already been taxed! FFS!

It's like turkeys voting for Christmas.

When will you cop yourself on and realise that the government is not your friend and they'll squeez you for every penny they can if they think they'll get away with it. It's people like you and your hair-brained opinions are the reason the government are sitting around a big table right now discussing things like 60% inheritance tax.

NO!
 

LeftOfCentre

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Messages
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:eek:

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Tax @ 60% on money that's already been taxed! FFS!

It's like turkeys voting for Christmas.

When will you cop yourself on and realise that the government is not your friend and they'll squeez you for every penny they can if they think they'll get away with it. It's people like you and your hair-brained opinions are the reason the government are sitting around a big table right now discussing things like 60% inheritance tax.

NO!
So Someone buys a house for 50 K . . . . a number Of years later,, after the state has paid for a luas line to pass by the front door and many other benefits ..... they sell it for 750k and die the next year . . .

When exactly did they pay the tax on the 700k ? (primary residence)

And why should someone who has done NOTHING to earn it , , , Get the money tax free?
 

Dreaded_Estate

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:eek:

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Tax @ 60% on money that's already been taxed! FFS!

It's like turkeys voting for Christmas.

When will you cop yourself on and realise that the government is not your friend and they'll squeez you for every penny they can if they think they'll get away with it. It's people like you and your hair-brained opinions are the reason the government are sitting around a big table right now discussing things like 60% inheritance tax.

NO!
You could say the exact thing about VAT or excise duty.

And you aren't taxing the person who leaves the money you are taxing the person who has just received a significant one off lump sum.
 

Factorem

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You could say the exact thing about VAT or excise duty.

And you aren't taxing the person who leaves the money you are taxing the person who has just received a significant one off lump sum.
It's no business of the the government to know how much of a lump sum a person inherits.

They can feck off if they think I'll happily pay a pack of gombeens 60% tax to pay for organisations like FAS and all the other useless quangos.
 

LeftOfCentre

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Messages
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It's no business of the the government to know how much of a lump sum a person inherits.

They can feck off if they think I'll happily pay a pack of gombeens 60% tax to pay for organisations like FAS and all the other useless quangos.
So you admit it , , , , you are comming at this from a personal point of view. (hands off my inheritance! even though i didn't earn it!)

When considering this issue one MUST look at it without their personal circumstances in mind.

You must ask what is FAIR & EQUITABLE . . . and not just what is palletable, or beneficial for you.

If there was ZERO inheritance tax, , , within 2 generations you would have a small number of very rich lazy individuals, , , , with the ability to invest all of their time and effort to lobby for the status quo.

100 % inheritance tax is probably not practical ,,,,, so a balance is key.

My Suggestion is 60% minimum.

But then I believe in equality,
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
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:eek:

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Tax @ 60% on money that's already been taxed! FFS!

It's like turkeys voting for Christmas.

When will you cop yourself on and realise that the government is not your friend and they'll squeez you for every penny they can if they think they'll get away with it. It's people like you and your hair-brained opinions are the reason the government are sitting around a big table right now discussing things like 60% inheritance tax.

NO!
it makes me laugh how people who consider themselves fans of the free market and a system of meritocracy suddenly develop a version of social solidarity that extends only to their children. Its such a cop out. Either you believe in a meritocracy and everybody makes it off their own work/ or/ you believe that the wealthy (parents) subsidise the poor (their kids). In a full meritocracy (one that has zero social welfare) then people should be taxed at 100% on death (dont raise rare examples such as a child being orphaned). In what we live in (a compromise) we have full and suitable social welfare (should be increased) and the state should play a bigger role and redistribute to those who require it. If you except that your children are entitled to some of your wealth then that concept of some person having a relationship with another must be extended to society as a whole. You cannot have ala carte solidarity- as far as your children. Solidarity means recognising that you would not have generated that wealth if you lived on an island by yourself. It is the existence of "society" with its flows of money/commerece that created the wealth in the 1st place. Upon death that wealth should return to society as a whole. Society does not owe your children unmerited wealth. If you believe it does then you also believe in dole payments/ disability allowances/public sector pay benchmarking and all those concepts. So which is it?
 

Vega1447

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Oct 18, 2007
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It's no business of the the government to know how much of a lump sum a person inherits.

They can feck off if they think I'll happily pay a pack of gombeens 60% tax to pay for organisations like FAS and all the other useless quangos.

You sound like a (wannabee)
inheritance brat
to me.

Do Mum & Dad know that you are posting on th'InterWeb about your Legacy? :p
 

Factorem

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567
So you admit it , , , , you are comming at this from a personal point of view. (hands off my inheritance! even though i didn't earn it!)

When considering this issue one MUST look at it without their personal circumstances in mind.

You must ask what is FAIR & EQUITABLE . . . and not just what is palletable, or beneficial for you.

If there was ZERO inheritance tax, , , within 2 generations you would have a small number of very rich lazy individuals, , , , with the ability to inves all of their time and effort to lobby for the status quo.


100 % inheritance tax is probably not practical ,,,,, so a balance is key.

My Suggestion is 60% minimum.

But then I believe in equality,
As a voter, of course I have my personal interests in mind.

You can be guaranteed that the personal interests of the FF party will be protected tomorrow.

On very lazy individuals within 2 generations: we already have this with the neuve landed/farming classes (once Charlie Haughey got rid of the Protestants by breaking up all the old estates with his draconian inheritance tax regime).

The inheritance tax for business owners is also ridiculously favourable to rich kids.
 

Factorem

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Dec 15, 2008
Messages
567
You sound like a (wannabee) to me.

Do Mum & Dad know that you are posting on th'InterWeb about your Legacy? :p
I think I'll grow a few vegetable patches and become a "trained farmer" by distance learning. That way I can dramatically lower my tax bill. Fair enough?
 


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