Dublin Government welshes on deal with RCC. All teaching posts to be filled by Open Competition.

Old Mr Grouser

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I though I'd get in with this now, before someone else does.

The Catholic Church has always had the right to directly appoint priests, nuns and monks and brothers as teachers or principals in its State-funded schools; and with thoseappointed then obtaining the usual taxpayer-funded salaries and benefits, such as pension entitlements.

Catholic school trustees can appoint who they please, so long as they are qualified teachers, with no public competition.

This right goes back to before the establishment of the State and was confirmed in Church-State agreements made as recently as 2015.

But according to this news-report - Church control of employment in schools to be scrapped - Richard Bruton, presumably with the full Cabinet backing him, “has asked officials to ‘immediately rectify matters, so that all school posts are filled by open competition’”.
 


Dame_Enda

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Good news. He who pays the piper must call the tune in this case.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Good news ...
A few days ago that Australian Royal commission Report came out.

The first of its Recommendations concerning the RCC was, "Recommendation 16.6 - The Bishop of each Catholic Church diocese in Australia should ensure that Parish priests are not the employers of principals and teachers in Catholic schools".

Is this now just a coincidence?
 

Dame_Enda

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A few days ago that Australian Royal commission Report came out.

The first of its Recommendations concerning the RCC was, "Recommendation 16.6 - The Bishop of each Catholic Church diocese in Australia should ensure that Parish priests are not the employers of principals and teachers in Catholic schools".

Is this now just a coincidence?
It is sadly the case that very often in this country, our leaders are only spurred into action by other govts themselves taking action against an analogous problem. Particularly in the English speaking world.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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It is sadly the case that very often in this country, our leaders are only spurred into action by other govts themselves taking action against an analogous problem. Particularly in the English speaking world.
Another way of putting that is that thankfully our leaders recognize that good ideas can come from anywhere, and of course it is easier to understand policy initiatives coming from other English-speaking common-law jurisdictions.

You'd perhaps be surprised to learn that this is a two-way street, and that large chunks of Irish primary and secondary legislation have found their way on to the statue books of Canada, Australia and New Zealand (but that may not of course suit your thesis).
 

Old Mr Grouser

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It is sadly the case that very often in this country, our leaders are only spurred into action by other govts themselves taking action against an analogous problem. Particularly in the English speaking world.
Yes.

And they'll also have the support of the teacher's Unions.

There was a fuss in June of this year when Bishop Monahan appointed a priest to be principal of St Flannan’s College Ennis.

It's a Diocesan College and the priest was already on the staff; but he was the only priest on the staff, and there doesn't seem to have been any advertising of the post or selection procedure. Bishop defends principal appointment – The Clare Champion
 

Hillmanhunter1

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I though I'd get in with this now, before someone else does.

The Catholic Church has always had the right to directly appoint priests, nuns and monks and brothers as teachers or principals in its State-funded schools; and with thoseappointed then obtaining the usual taxpayer-funded salaries and benefits, such as pension entitlements.

Catholic school trustees can appoint who they please, so long as they are qualified teachers, with no public competition.

This right goes back to before the establishment of the State and was confirmed in Church-State agreements made as recently as 2015.

But according to this news-report - Church control of employment in schools to be scrapped - Richard Bruton, presumably with the full Cabinet backing him, “has asked officials to ‘immediately rectify matters, so that all school posts are filled by open competition’”.
Good, this is long overdue. The Catholic Church (and for that matter all religions) have no right to designate certain members to be public servants to be paid salary and pension from the public purse.
 

Dame_Enda

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We cannot have a situation any more where the RCCs idea of sex education is telling pupils that condems don't protect against AIDS.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Good, this is long overdue. The Catholic Church (and for that matter all religions) have no right to designate certain members to be public servants to be paid salary and pension from the public purse.
alii alia dic*nt :)

Its none of their business and not within their remit on how any Religion is practised ...
:p
 

making waves

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Welcome - but what really needs to happen NOW is for the education system to be removed from any influence of the religious hierarchies and religion removed completely from schools.
 

Dame_Enda

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Welcome - but what really needs to happen NOW is for the education system to be removed from any influence of the religious hierarchies and religion removed completely from schools.
Im not necessarily averse to religious education as long as the Churches and/or those who want religious education pay for it themselves.
 

raetsel

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It's about time this happened. People should be appointed on merit. It is time to start dismantling the role of churches in education.
 

Orbit v2

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It's about time this happened. People should be appointed on merit.
Someone should tell that to the unions. As it is, teachers who can't find a job are put on a panel, which has to be emptied before jobs can be offered to newly qualifieds. That doesn't sound very meritorious to me.
 
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Hillmanhunter1

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Someone should tell that to the unions. As it is, teachers who can't find a job are put on a panel, which has to be emptied before jobs can be offered to newly qualifieds. That doesn't sound very meritorious to me.
Newsflash: Unions defend the interests of their members!

That is why, if you are a worker (and everyone who is not the owner is a worker) you should be in a union.
 

Orbit v2

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Newsflash: Unions defend the interests of their members!

That is why, if you are a worker (and everyone who is not the owner is a worker) you should be in a union.
Don't be talking about job appointments based on merit then ...

I agree it makes sense to be in a union for some jobs, but not most jobs.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Don't be talking about job appointments based on merit then ...

I agree it makes sense to be in a union for some jobs, but not most jobs.
I believe that it makes sense to be in a union in all jobs. The problem in Ireland (and some other countries) is that all the unions are left wing and their members are not. I fully support the right of individuals in any employment to join a union, but there should be a choice of unions from socialist, to middle ground, to conservative. This is the model in many other European countries.
 

paulp

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Bishops have come out in favor of removing this provision. (or at least that they have no objection to it's removal)
 

Hillmanhunter1

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