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Dublin Protestants


Liverpoolblue

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Jun 27, 2008
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I was reading about the song "Come out you Black and Tans" and it mentioned that the song makes reference to a Dublin protestant working class who had been Black and Tans. It made it sound like they faded away or something over time. Did they intermarry or move out? What happened to them are they still there?

Lb
 

mairteenpak

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Apr 21, 2008
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Some moved away, some intermarried, some died out, some became atheists. Those that were left tended to keep their heads down.
 

Fir Bolg

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Dec 8, 2006
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It doesn't refer to Dublin protestants at all. The only protestant the song refers to is Parnell.
 

fool

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Feb 9, 2005
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There are still a fair few Dublin based working class prods.
It's highly unlikely that any of them would have been in the Black and Tans, as the tans were recruited in Britain, rather than in Dublin, where people who live in Dublin live.
 

Aindriu

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Jun 28, 2007
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fool said:
There are still a fair few Dublin based working class prods.
It's highly unlikely that any of them would have been in the Black and Tans, as the tans were recruited in Britain, rather than in Dublin, where people who live in Dublin live.
The only thing they may have been is RIC members. Definitely not Black & Tans as already stated.

There are loads of prods in Dublin now.
 

locke

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May 2, 2007
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The Protestant community declined for a number of reasons.

The British Armed Forces left. A lot of the apparently sharp decline in the 1920s is because of that.

The First World War disproportionately affected the Protestant community. A lot were killed and a lot of the women of the era "married out" or stayed single because of the gender imbalance in young Protestant numbers during the 1920s. Combine this with Ne Temere and it has a significant impact on future generations.

Some felt uncomfortable in the new state and moved north of the border or to Britain. A programme which allowed Irish civil servants to move to the British civil service would have been a factor there as well.

There were unfortunately a small number of attacks on Protestants around the time of independence, which also encouraged some to leave. However, given the small scale and the fact it was confined to a few very specific localities, I think this tends to get overstated by some for political reasons now.

Historically, the Protestant birth rate was lower and when the Irish population was stagnant due to emigration, the fact the Protestants proportions were lowering produced a smaller community.

Ne temere meant that the children of mixed marriages were likely to be brought up catholic.

But as said above, the Protestant community is still there and numbers seem to have stabilised among the native Protestant population, while being swelled by immigration, so the future isn't as grim as it had once appeared.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
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Liverpoolblue said:
I was reading about the song "Come out you Black and Tans" and it mentioned that the song makes reference to a Dublin protestant working class who had been Black and Tans. It made it sound like they faded away or something over time. Did they intermarry or move out? What happened to them are they still there?

Lb
After independence most Protestants in the south were made to feel more then unwelcome, some were driven out, most moved north or to the mainland.

As dev said, it was a Catholic country for a Catholic people.
 

Tiernanator

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Jun 2, 2007
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Kalif said:
Liverpoolblue said:
I was reading about the song "Come out you Black and Tans" and it mentioned that the song makes reference to a Dublin protestant working class who had been Black and Tans. It made it sound like they faded away or something over time. Did they intermarry or move out? What happened to them are they still there?

Lb
After independence most Protestants in the south were made to feel more then unwelcome, some were driven out, most moved north or to the mainland.

As dev said, it was a Catholic country for a Catholic people.
Kalif they were on the mainland already. Ireland is the mainland you illiterate fool and for your information I am delighted that the protestant community is thriving. Long may it continue. :roll: :roll:
 

popper

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Oct 4, 2004
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I wouldn't take that song too literally! It was written by Brendan Behan's less talented brother Dominic. Tans and Brits were under daily attack with several hundred of them killed in Dublin between 1920 and 22 and were all living in barracks and certainly not in digs!

Song also refers to the IRA chasing them down the "green and lovely lanes of Killeshandra" in Cavan. Which is a bit of a local joke as the IRA did almost nothing in Cavan.
 

Gondolier

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Feb 5, 2007
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There was a steady stream of English immigrants into Dublin in the latter part of the 19th century - craftsmen, small traders and so on. And British soldiers sometimes brought their families over for long spells. When independence came in the 1920s their offspring still had family ties with the old country. So it was hardly surprising that many of them would drift back. It was not unlike the migrations to and from British colonies in more distant parts of the world.

Other working class protestants came from families that had lived in the city for generations and would not have been subject to the same pull.

Don't go looking for simple explanations of the demographic trends after independence. Dublin is, and always has been, a mongrel city. And every family history is different.
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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Kalif said:
Liverpoolblue said:
I was reading about the song "Come out you Black and Tans" and it mentioned that the song makes reference to a Dublin protestant working class who had been Black and Tans. It made it sound like they faded away or something over time. Did they intermarry or move out? What happened to them are they still there?

Lb
After independence most Protestants in the south were made to feel more then unwelcome, some were driven out, most moved north or to the mainland.

As dev said, it was a Catholic country for a Catholic people.
Plank. You might try using facts. Isn't there a politics.uk for you to bore people with your stupidity? WHy would a brit be on an Irish website talking (out of his arse let it be said) about irish history?
 

LowIQ

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Feb 9, 2005
Messages
287
If anyone can find the lyrics in question:

I was born on a Dublin street where the Royal drums did beat
And the loving English feet they walked all over us
And each and every night when me da' would come home tight
He'd invite the neighbors outside with this chorus

Come out you black and tans, come out and fight me like a man
Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders
Tell her how the IRA made you run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killashandra

Come let me hear you tell how you slammed the great Parnell
When you fought them well and truly persecuted
Where are the smears and jeers that you bravely let us hear
When our heros of sixteen were executed

Come tell us how you slew those brave arabs two by two
Like the Zulus they had spears and bows and arrows
How you bravely slew each one with your sixteen pounder gun
And you frightened them poor natives to their marrow

The day is coming fast and the time is here at last
When each yoeman will be cast aside before us
And if there be a need sure my kids will sing God speed
With a verse of two of Steven Beehan's chorus
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
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90
Clanrickard said:
Kalif said:
Liverpoolblue said:
I was reading about the song "Come out you Black and Tans" and it mentioned that the song makes reference to a Dublin protestant working class who had been Black and Tans. It made it sound like they faded away or something over time. Did they intermarry or move out? What happened to them are they still there?

Lb
After independence most Protestants in the south were made to feel more then unwelcome, some were driven out, most moved north or to the mainland.

As dev said, it was a Catholic country for a Catholic people.
Plank. You might try using facts. Isn't there a politics.uk for you to bore people with your stupidity? WHy would a brit be on an Irish website talking (out of his arse let it be said) about irish history?
Because he is a sad loner.
 

Podolski

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Oct 10, 2006
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104
popper said:
I wouldn't take that song too literally! It was written by Brendan Behan's less talented brother Dominic. Tans and Brits were under daily attack with several hundred of them killed in Dublin between 1920 and 22 and were all living in barracks and certainly not in digs!

Song also refers to the IRA chasing them down the "green and lovely lanes of Killeshandra" in Cavan. Which is a bit of a local joke as the IRA did almost nothing in Cavan.
Dominic Behan was a prolific and talented song writer (and a good singer too), including the internationally acclaimed "Patriot Game". He also wrote plays and other prose, most notably "Teems of Time". Maybe it was his politics you don't like?
 

popper

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Oct 4, 2004
Messages
297
Podolski said:
popper said:
I wouldn't take that song too literally! It was written by Brendan Behan's less talented brother Dominic. Tans and Brits were under daily attack with several hundred of them killed in Dublin between 1920 and 22 and were all living in barracks and certainly not in digs!

Song also refers to the IRA chasing them down the "green and lovely lanes of Killeshandra" in Cavan. Which is a bit of a local joke as the IRA did almost nothing in Cavan.
Dominic Behan was a prolific and talented song writer (and a good singer too), including the internationally acclaimed "Patriot Game". He also wrote plays and other prose, most notably "Teems of Time". Maybe it was his politics you don't like?

I said "less talented" not untalented. Actually met him, or rather was in the same company as him, a few times. Irrascible I think is the most apt description! A roaring stickie as I recall.
 

johnfás

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Feb 22, 2007
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2,727
There is still a Protestant working class, both urban and rural in the Republic, though the information above, particularly in Locke's post is very accurate. There is nothing more I would add to his post.
 

Zyklon B

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Sep 13, 2007
Messages
75
I was always led to believe that Protestants voted Fine Gael (in rural areas). What about in ubran areas? I am aware of Cllr Trevor Matthews in Dundrum (Fianna Fáil). Labour voters?
 

cropbeye

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Aug 3, 2006
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944
Kalif said:
Liverpoolblue said:
I was reading about the song "Come out you Black and Tans" and it mentioned that the song makes reference to a Dublin protestant working class who had been Black and Tans. It made it sound like they faded away or something over time. Did they intermarry or move out? What happened to them are they still there?

Lb
After independence most Protestants in the south were made to feel more then unwelcome, some were driven out, most moved north or to the mainland.

As dev said, it was a Catholic country for a Catholic people.
Absolute bollocks1
 

Alliance

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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
162
i dread the outcome of these threads...wait for every ugly stereotype to pop up...

for the record the protestant side of my family was (and still is) cork inner city working class. the rc side was (and still is) cork country and wealthly. go figure.
 
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