DUP V "Reality principle"

McSlaggart

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"Let’s be clear — the Irish are not seeking a fight with Britain, which is its largest trading partner and where up to a million Irish-born people live. But neither can Ireland allow a hard border with Northern Ireland to jeopardize peace.

For now, the Irish peace process is protected by Ireland’s 26 allies in the EU and the last word can go to the Irish prime minister: “What we want to continue on the island of Ireland is exactly what we’ve had for the last 20 years — which is peace and freedom of movement and free trade between Northern Ireland and Ireland and indeed between Ireland and Britain.”"

Ireland

It strikes me that the DUP/Unionists are being driven by the "pleasure principle" in relation to Brexit. The idea of getting their country back and being independent in the world is just "lovely jubbly". A nice hard border to make it clear that Northern Ireland is different and British "lovely jubbly".

The cold hard fact is that the Irish government cannot and will not allow such a thing to happen. This is not some 4th green field but the Donegal/leitrim/Cavan/Monaghan factor. It is a pity that no one informed Arline that particular issue my arise for the Irish government.
 


devonish

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"Let’s be clear — the Irish are not seeking a fight with Britain, which is its largest trading partner and where up to a million Irish-born people live. But neither can Ireland allow a hard border with Northern Ireland to jeopardize peace.

For now, the Irish peace process is protected by Ireland’s 26 allies in the EU and the last word can go to the Irish prime minister: “What we want to continue on the island of Ireland is exactly what we’ve had for the last 20 years — which is peace and freedom of movement and free trade between Northern Ireland and Ireland and indeed between Ireland and Britain.”"

Ireland

It strikes me that the DUP/Unionists are being driven by the "pleasure principle" in relation to Brexit. The idea of getting their country back and being independent in the world is just "lovely jubbly". A nice hard border to make it clear that Northern Ireland is different and British "lovely jubbly".

The cold hard fact is that the Irish government cannot and will not allow such a thing to happen. This is not some 4th green field but the Donegal/leitrim/Cavan/Monaghan factor. It is a pity that no one informed Arline that particular issue my arise for the Irish government.
No fan of the DUP but I haven't heard them advocate for a hard border, have you or are you just projecting what you think they want?
 

death or glory

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I thought i would do my bit, do try harder.
You have already equalled the total number of posts on your last OP.
 

GDPR

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I strongly suspect that Arlene was privately against Brexit.

Anyway whether Northern Ireland remains in the UK or not the CNR tribe is going to definitely become the dominant one sooner rather than later at which stage probably a majority of Prods will leave making NI politics very different.
 

Levellers

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The DUP/UDA pretend they don't want a hard border (because the wealth creators know this is economic illiteracy) but in their hearts think this hard border will guarantee their future in the UK.

Tick tock.
 

McSlaggart

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I strongly suspect that Arlene was privately against Brexit.

Anyway whether Northern Ireland remains in the UK or not the CNR tribe is going to definitely become the dominant one sooner rather than later at which stage probably a majority of Prods will leave making NI politics very different.
"Arlene Foster: DUP will not accept Brexit border in Irish Sea"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/arlene-foster-dup-will-not-accept-brexit-border-in-irish-sea-1.3311275
 

death or glory

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McSlaggart

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No fan of the DUP but I haven't heard them advocate for a hard border, have you or are you just projecting what you think they want?
"The Democratic Unionist party has launched a scathing attack on Brussels and Dublin politicians accusing them of trying to use Northern Ireland to “blackmail” Brexit negotiators in London.

Arlene Foster, the party’s leader, issued a strongly worded statement on Monday night, three days after Ireland’s taoiseach warned that the country would block progress in Brexit talks unless the UK came up with proposals to avoid a hard border with Northern Ireland."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/hmrc-bosses-have-few-plans-for-managing-northern-irish-border-after-brexit
 

death or glory

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I bet you felt proud when you came across that the first time.
Yes it really touched my heart when I first heard it nearly a year ago.
 

vivabrigada

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No matter the final outcame, Brexit is a clusterfuk for unionists in Ireland.
It managed to put Ireland front and centre of European politics and the British won't get away with their usual Perfidious Albion routine with the EU.
Irish people should be thanking UKIP, the British Tories and the DUP for their shortsighted stupidity.
Watching the Tory civil war over it is just a bonus.
 

AhNowStop

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No matter the final outcame, Brexit is a clusterfuk for unionists in Ireland.
It managed to put Ireland front and centre of European politics and the British won't get away with their usual Perfidious Albion routine with the EU.
Irish people should be thanking UKIP, the British Tories and the DUP for their shortsighted stupidity.
Watching the Tory civil war over it is just a bonus.
Touché ...


And we have the added "delightful" bonus of watching the DUP crackpots writhing & wriggling in a cloud of self inflicted incredulous discombobulation :lol: lmfao

We are living in interesting times indeed... :cool:
 

devonish

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"The Democratic Unionist party has launched a scathing attack on Brussels and Dublin politicians accusing them of trying to use Northern Ireland to “blackmail” Brexit negotiators in London.

Arlene Foster, the party’s leader, issued a strongly worded statement on Monday night, three days after Ireland’s taoiseach warned that the country would block progress in Brexit talks unless the UK came up with proposals to avoid a hard border with Northern Ireland."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/hmrc-bosses-have-few-plans-for-managing-northern-irish-border-after-brexit
As I stated, no evidence to support your view that they want a hard border between NI and the republic, the fact that they don't want any form of border between NI and GB is just plain common sense.
 

Niall996

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I would never claim to know quite how the mind of a DUP person works because there are many aspects that entwine and overlap; religion, UK'ness, NI'ness, Loyalism, anti Irishness, anti Catholicism, Protestant mythology, Scottish'ness, North England'ness, etc., it's never really clear which or their multiple personalities are speaking. I suspect that there are many who if given a choice would opt for a little Britain scenario with hard borders with both the ROI and the UK. If they could get rid of the nationalists or at least keep them under the kosh as before and create a sort of mini fantasy Britain where the Queen could live and be their leader, with military and war ceremonies every day followed by church services, a march past the evil Taigs of the middle kingdom and a steady stream of old BBC TV shows. Their little kingdom for the lost tribe of God's people.
 

AhNowStop

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As I stated, no evidence to support your view that they want a hard border between NI and the republic, the fact that they don't want any form of border between NI and GB is just plain common sense.
the baul Nelson McCausland let it slip perfectly on the Nolan show...

Dev, I had thought you had more sense .. Can you explain to me what other "possible" reason the DUP would have to promote a hard brexit and to subsequently reject special status for NI, other than them wanting a hard border ?

by promoting a hard brexit & rejecting special status (which would have put NI on the pigs back) they are clearly calling for a hard border... ...and as has been said before, they are doing it because they hope it will draw a bigger line between NI & RoI and "hopefully" put to bed any ideas from the nasty Nationalists of a United Ireland .. they can see the demographic changes coming and instead of doing the "sensible" thing and trying to make nationalists happier with the status quo, they are digging their heels in, and this is just part of that ...

Its no big surprise really as any time in the past that "any" unionist has tried to move forward with equality etc, they have been booted out at the very next juncture .....

This is solely a "unionist" issue ... what would you suggest ?


edit - btw, many many unionists are pragmatic enough to NOT want a hard borer .. but the vast majority of the DUP and a lot of unionists would, especially political unionism..
 

McSlaggart

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As I stated, no evidence to support your view that they want a hard border between NI and the republic, the fact that they don't want any form of border between NI and GB is just plain common sense.
The only way to stop a hard border was to have it in the Irish sea. Arline Foster went on about the use of Technology to sort the issue out.
 

devonish

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the baul Nelson McCausland let it slip perfectly on the Nolan show...

Dev, I had thought you had more sense .. Can you explain to me what other "possible" reason the DUP would have to promote a hard brexit and to subsequently reject special status for NI, other than them wanting a hard border ?

by promoting a hard brexit & rejecting special status (which would have put NI on the pigs back) they are clearly calling for a hard border... ...and as has been said before, they are doing it because they hope it will draw a bigger line between NI & RoI and "hopefully" put to bed any ideas from the nasty Nationalists of a United Ireland .. they can see the demographic changes coming and instead of doing the "sensible" thing and trying to make nationalists happier with the status quo, they are digging their heels in, and this is just part of that ...

Its no big surprise really as any time in the past that "any" unionist has tried to move forward with equality etc, they have been booted out at the very next juncture .....

This is solely a "unionist" issue ... what would you suggest ?


edit - btw, many many unionists are pragmatic enough to NOT want a hard borer .. but the vast majority of the DUP and a lot of unionists would, especially political unionism..
I read contrary views as to exactly what sort of status NI would have. Of course if NI was being offered the best of both worlds then anyone not jumping at the chance just because it might be perceived as "diminishing our Britishness" is stupid and short sighted.
There may well be some in the DUP who think that a hard border with customs checks etc would be great, I haven't heard them advocate that position.
 

devonish

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The only way to stop a hard border was to have it in the Irish sea. Arline Foster went on about the use of Technology to sort the issue out.
A border in the Irish sea would be economically more damaging than a border between NI and the republic, I presume that you accept that.
 

McSlaggart

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A border in the Irish sea would be economically more damaging than a border between NI and the republic, I presume that you accept that.
The Idea the Irish people are pushing is that northern Ireland gets the best of both its the mad Unionists who are against that idea. The border in the Irish sea would be for stopping things such as non Irish eu emigration into the UK.
 

AhNowStop

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I read contrary views as to exactly what sort of status NI would have. Of course if NI was being offered the best of both worlds then anyone not jumping at the chance just because it might be perceived as "diminishing our Britishness" is stupid and short sighted.
This is "exactly" what was on offer .. and exactly what was rebuffed by the DUP .. its worse than stupid & short sighted .. we all know what it "really" is...


There may well be some in the DUP who think that a hard border with customs checks etc would be great, I haven't heard them advocate that position.
A snake aint gonna tell you he's going to bite you ... Of course the DUP want a hard border, they want to sever as many ties with RoI as possible .. please stop pretending to not understand this .. ffs Dev :roll:
 


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