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Dutch documentary on the influence of the Jewish-Israeli Lobby in the US


blacbloc

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Excellent documentary about this taboo subject. It includes input from people on all sides of the discussion. The big question is whether 'The Lobby' is only allowed influence so long as its interests coincide with US interests, or whether Israel is effectively controlling US foreign policy in the region

The Israel Lobby. Portrait of a Great Taboo

Note: the narration is in Dutch but all of the interviews are conducted in English so don't be deterred by the Dutch language introduction (two/three minutes approx).
 


Clanrickard

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Why are Jews suspect for trying to influence foreign policy? Armenians brought a genocide motion to the floor in congress despite Turkey being a key ally of the US thanks to aggressive lobbying. What about the Greeks? Ourselves? Many ethnic groups lobby so why shouldn't Jews?
 

blacbloc

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Why are Jews suspect for trying to influence foreign policy? Armenians brought a genocide motion to the floor in congress despite Turkey being a key ally of the US thanks to aggressive lobbying. What about the Greeks? Ourselves? Many ethnic groups lobby so why shouldn't Jews?
Why not watch the documentary before posting? Then you wouldn't need to ask questions like this.
 

Clanrickard

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Why not watch the documentary before posting? Then you wouldn't need to ask questions like this.
It was a general question. This documentary isn't the first to investigate the power of the Jewish lobby. My point is there is a serious concentration on the Jewish lobby. Why?
 

seanciaran

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Haven't had time to see documentary yet. However, I will. In interim, I am certain that zionists, esp. those who steal Palestinian land (i.e. settlers) and those who rule the geographical entity (AKA 'israel) justify theft of land, barbarism, ethnic cleansing, widespread discrimination and their apartheid statelet by referring to the old testament bible. A book which is comprised in essence of fairy tales about Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve et al. This book which flies in the face of science and our knowledge of the world and universe, makes reference to jews as "god's chosen people". Of course the greed ridden jews conveniently use this tripe to justify one atrocity after another. It begs the question.....what is it about jews? BTW, please spare me the anti semetic, nazi BS.
 

Limerick Lad

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Haven't had time to see documentary yet. However, I will. In interim, I am certain that zionists, esp. those who steal Palestinian land (i.e. settlers) and those who rule the geographical entity (AKA 'israel) justify theft of land, barbarism, ethnic cleansing, widespread discrimination and their apartheid statelet by referring to the old testament bible. A book which is comprised in essence of fairy tales about Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve et al. This book which flies in the face of science and our knowledge of the world and universe, makes reference to jews as "god's chosen people". Of course the greed ridden jews conveniently use this tripe to justify one atrocity after another. It begs the question.....what is it about jews? BTW, please spare me the anti semetic, nazi BS.
It's an undisputed fact that Jewish Nation originated and lived in Judea where modern day Israel is situated now, it's not some biblical fairy tale as you seem to claim. The Roman occupation of Judea led to the loss of a homeland for the Jewish people until it was restored to them after World War Two.
 

Thac0man

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twit taa woo
It was a general question. This documentary isn't the first to investigate the power of the Jewish lobby. My point is there is a serious concentration on the Jewish lobby. Why?
Because they are Jews. Dirty hook nose horrible Jews. Since the establishment of Israel there have been countless masscares, coups, opressions and occupations worldwide, yet none of them are apparently noteworthy. Why? Because they don't concern Jews. Its interesting that many who squeal about Palistine, in the same breath argue against Tibetan indepandance or feel nowhere near the same level of hate or condemnation for the Burmese Junta.

Is hardly a coincidence that blacbloc (the nouveau radical movement) chose Black and Red as their colours - the facists colours. Only a matter of time before plain ignorance let the leftist mask slip from what is a proto-Fascist movement.
 

blacbloc

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It's an undisputed fact that Jewish Nation originated and lived in Judea where modern day Israel is situated now, it's not some biblical fairy tale as you seem to claim. The Roman occupation of Judea led to the loss of a homeland for the Jewish people until it was restored to them after World War Two.

It is also an undisputed fact that the Jewish people (actually a religious group and NOT a 'nation') lived co-temporaneously in the same territory with the ancestors of the Palestinians who actually preceded them into the same territory. Now, where does that get us? Nowhere. Jews should be able to live anywhere they like in the world without prejudice. So should the Palestinians. The Jewish-Israeli state is completely illegitimate - founded on murder and dispossession which continues to this day. The lie that is Israel becomes more and more apparent to all right thinking people.
 

Thac0man

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It is also an undisputed fact that the Jewish people (actually a religious group and NOT a 'nation') lived co-temporaneously in the same territory with the ancestors of the Palestinians who actually preceded them into the same territory. Now, where does that get us? Nowhere. Jews should be able to live anywhere they like in the world without prejudice. So should the Palestinians. The Jewish-Israeli state is completely illegitimate - founded on murder and dispossession which continues to this day. The lie that is Israel becomes more and more apparent to all right thinking people.
Are there not Arabs living in Isreal? yes.

On what basis do you think that post WWII the Arabs were entitled to every scrap of land from Morocco to the borders of Persia? The Jews were given a tiny piece of that vaste swath of land, and it is vaste. And that was too much for the monoculture of Islam to tolerate. And thus all hell has broken loose.
 

misterX

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Why are Jews suspect for trying to influence foreign policy? Armenians brought a genocide motion to the floor in congress despite Turkey being a key ally of the US thanks to aggressive lobbying. What about the Greeks? Ourselves? Many ethnic groups lobby so why shouldn't Jews?
It is worth watching. The Pro-Israeli supporter admitted that Israel is not a strategic friend of the US, rather it is a strategic hindrance. However the thoughts of just letting Israel go are unthinkable, for one because of the 'very powerful Jewish lobby'.

Kenneth Roth (Human rights watch) who's parents escaped the holocaust
made some very good remarks about the 'reflexive defenders of Israel'.

All in all, very informative and worth watching.
 

misterX

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It's an undisputed fact that Jewish Nation originated and lived in Judea where modern day Israel is situated now, it's not some biblical fairy tale as you seem to claim. The Roman occupation of Judea led to the loss of a homeland for the Jewish people until it was restored to them after World War Two.

undisputed fact....... hmmm. Where are your undisputed sources?

Have you read 'The Histories' by Herodotus? Written in 440 BC, doesn't he refer to that area as being known as 'The land of Palastinians'?
 

L'Chaim

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Because they are Jews. Dirty hook nose horrible Jews. Since the establishment of Israel there have been countless masscares, coups, opressions and occupations worldwide, yet none of them are apparently noteworthy. Why? Because they don't concern Jews. Its interesting that many who squeal about Palistine, in the same breath argue against Tibetan indepandance or feel nowhere near the same level of hate or condemnation for the Burmese Junta.

Is hardly a coincidence that blacbloc (the nouveau radical movement) chose Black and Red as their colours - the facists colours. Only a matter of time before plain ignorance let the leftist mask slip from what is a proto-Fascist movement.
And that's exactly it in a nutshell. Not a peep when other lobby groups are lobbying, but people do seem to get their knickers in a twist when it comes to Jews
 

iartaoiseach

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Are there not Arabs living in Isreal? yes.

On what basis do you think that post WWII the Arabs were entitled to every scrap of land from Morocco to the borders of Persia? The Jews were given a tiny piece of that vaste swath of land, and it is vaste. And that was too much for the monoculture of Islam to tolerate. And thus all hell has broken loose.
The neighbouring arab countries didn't exactly rush to help their palestinian brothers post WW2 either, they were too busy grabbing land for themselves and consolidating power. they also were reluctant to take in refugees from palestine. didn't see eygpt opening its borders during the recent conflict either. few factions in the middle east have covered themselves in glory for a long time i'm afraid.
 
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Watching this now, excellent documentary and approached with all the necessary sensitivity.

It's fascinating how posters here fit with several interviewees' descriptions of "reflexive criticism" of anyone who discusses the topic. Posters here are underlining that point. They haven't watched the documentary, but are instinctively criticising it.
 

seanciaran

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It's an undisputed fact that Jewish Nation originated and lived in Judea where modern day Israel is situated now, it's not some biblical fairy tale as you seem to claim. The Roman occupation of Judea led to the loss of a homeland for the Jewish people until it was restored to them after World War Two.
In essence, the millions of jews who flocked to israel and continue to do so displace the indigenous people and cause widespread death, terror and suffering. They have created a sectarian, apartheid state. They destroy lives and homes and communities where indigenous Palestinians have lived for centuries, more than 1.5 million Palestinians have been displaced.
They justify the suffering they inflict, the barbaric nature of their occupation
etc on the bible's tales about jews being "god's chosen people". It's that simple.

If we were all to abide by your theory, then any descendant of a Viking living in Ireland or Britain could return to Scandanavia and drive out some family,claiming that it his the land of his forefathers, therefore his land. Honestly, gimme a break.
 

Clanrickard

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They have created a sectarian, apartheid state..
How so? This canard is repeated ad nauseum so maybe someone could point out how there is apartheid in Israel.
 

seanciaran

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How so? This canard is repeated ad nauseum so maybe someone could point out how there is apartheid in Israel.
Palestinians living in Israel (so called 1948 arabs) are granted citizenship but not allowed to join the israeli army and are confined to one section of Jeruselam. Palestinians living close to israeli settlements are frequently denied access to their place of work or residence because of their ethnicity. There are numerous videos (for example on UTube) where Settlers and israeli military are seen stealing Palestinian land, where jews take over Palestinian homes etc. 1.5 million Palestinians have been displaced and live in other countries specifically to make space for the jews. Current zionist policy is that the displaced Palestinians will not be allowed to return to their homeland under any circumstances, even if a settlement is reached. Israel continues to build new settlements on Palestinian land against the wishes of the palestinians and despite the suffering it causes for indigenous people. Finally, the current zionist foreign minister (a guy called Lieberman who was born in Moldova as were his ancestors) has demanded that all israeli arabs sign an oath of loyalty to the zionist state or else be tossed out of the 'country'. In other words, either support zionism and continued expansion etc or get out. I could go on, but if ya haven't got it so far, you are either pig stupid or a pro zionist fascist.

South Africa's (former) apartheid state pales into insignificance when compared with jewish apartheid.
 

blacbloc

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And that's exactly it in a nutshell. Not a peep when other lobby groups are lobbying, but people do seem to get their knickers in a twist when it comes to Jews
Rubbish. Zionist Israel gets its knickers in a knot when ever it is pointed out that it is expected to abide by international and moral norms - that murdering and robbing Palestinians is criminal. The shrill accusation of 'Jew hatred' is just deliberate emotional blackmail. The point of this thread is the extraordinary influece of the US Zionist lobby. Judt makes the interesting point that unlike all other 'ethnic' Americans (Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, Black-Americans), the situation with Jewish people has been made different. The emotional fallout from the Nazi holocaust of the last century has been deployed to create a different identity and sense of moral obligation to the notion of a religious 'homeland' to which Jewish people all over the world have automatic citizenship. Imagine if Italy were to declare the same thing were true for all Catholics. It's a poppycock idea of course.

Face it, Jewish people are no nicer or 'worser' than the rest of us. It is not an outrage to point out their crimes like we would anyone else's. Even Perle admits in the documentary that it would be impossible for any Senatorial or Presidential candidate to succeed in an election in the US if he or she were to make such observations in public. This is in a country where Muslim-hating has been elevated to a form of patriotic duty. Again, look at the documentary - the facts speak for themselves. Even Jewish people who speak out are labelled as 'self haters'.

L'Chaim is him or herself a text-book example of the 'protect the Zionist project regardless' lobby. He appears on this website only and ever in the context of the topic of Israel.
 

Toland

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