Dyslexia in English and the Irish language

Barroso

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I see that the government has decided that being dyslexic in English can get you an exemption from Irish now, according to d'Indo.
I'm not quite sure how to take this: dyslexia is a difficulty some people have with reading, and for obvious reasons those educated through English suffer from it more than most.

For those who don't understand, I'll spell it out: English spelling is incredibly irregular which makes it difficult to learn to read English. Most other languages with an alphabet (we're not discussing Chinese here) are not so difficult, and so dyslexia is rarer for instance, among Spanish or Italian or Finnish speakers than among English speakers.

In a country where the government wanted to promote a language, if dyslexia in the target language was a genuine problem, they would develop a program to allow those with the difficulty to become proficient in the language to whatever extent they could.

Not so in Ireland. We say, this child can't read English well, so we won't look into any difficulties involved in reading Irish, and we won't develop a suitable plan to teach Irish - we'll exempt him/her from learning Irish.

Needless to say, this will go down well with the D4 set.
 


Fenian Boy

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I see that the government has decided that being dyslexic in English can get you an exemption from Irish now, according to d'Indo.
I'm not quite sure how to take this: dyslexia is a difficulty some people have with reading, and for obvious reasons those educated through English suffer from it more than most.

For those who don't understand, I'll spell it out: English spelling is incredibly irregular which makes it difficult to learn to read English. Most other languages with an alphabet (we're not discussing Chinese here) are not so difficult, and so dyslexia is rarer for instance, among Spanish or Italian or Finnish speakers than among English speakers.

In a country where the government wanted to promote a language, if dyslexia in the target language was a genuine problem, they would develop a program to allow those with the difficulty to become proficient in the language to whatever extent they could.

Not so in Ireland. We say, this child can't read English well, so we won't look into any difficulties involved in reading Irish, and we won't develop a suitable plan to teach Irish - we'll exempt him/her from learning Irish.

Needless to say, this will go down well with the D4 set.
Obviously the government has no interest in promoting the Irish language, that would be completely contradictory their economic and social agendas. They want a globalized Ireland, not an Irish Ireland, and for that purpose Ireland’s status as an English speaking country is of the utmost importance to them. The Irish language or other cultural aspects of Irish identity is of no value to the kind of purely economic mindset that belongs to our politicians.
 

Pyewacket

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I see that the government has decided that being dyslexic in English can get you an exemption from Irish now, according to d'Indo.
I'm not quite sure how to take this: dyslexia is a difficulty some people have with reading, and for obvious reasons those educated through English suffer from it more than most.

For those who don't understand, I'll spell it out: English spelling is incredibly irregular which makes it difficult to learn to read English. Most other languages with an alphabet (we're not discussing Chinese here) are not so difficult, and so dyslexia is rarer for instance, among Spanish or Italian or Finnish speakers than among English speakers.

In a country where the government wanted to promote a language, if dyslexia in the target language was a genuine problem, they would develop a program to allow those with the difficulty to become proficient in the language to whatever extent they could.

Not so in Ireland. We say, this child can't read English well, so we won't look into any difficulties involved in reading Irish, and we won't develop a suitable plan to teach Irish - we'll exempt him/her from learning Irish.

Needless to say, this will go down well with the D4 set.
Thought dyslexia is mandated for Irish and Scots "Gallic". All those dancing consonants.
 

Barroso

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Thought dyslexia is mandated for Irish and Scots "Gallic". All those dancing consonants.
I'm not aware of any research done into Irish-language dyslexia.
However, the difficulty with English is the lack of uniformity in spelling - in Irish, different spelling (including the séimhiú and the urú) denotes different pronunciation, meaning that there is relative uniformity which is absent in English.

The main problem with learning Irish at school is that there are not enough contact hours in a school career to lead to fluency. The general understanding is that 5,000 contact hours are required to reach fluency. These do not need to be at school of course - they could be watching TV, listening to the radio, social activities and the like.
Of course this does not apply to Gaelscoileanna, as there are more than 5000 contact hours before the end of primary school.
 

Pyewacket

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I'm not aware of any research done into Irish-language dyslexia.
However, the difficulty with English is the lack of uniformity in spelling - in Irish, different spelling (including the séimhiú and the urú) denotes different pronunciation, meaning that there is relative uniformity which is absent in English.

The main problem with learning Irish at school is that there are not enough contact hours in a school career to lead to fluency. The general understanding is that 5,000 contact hours are required to reach fluency. These do not need to be at school of course - they could be watching TV, listening to the radio, social activities and the like.
Of course this does not apply to Gaelscoileanna, as there are more than 5000 contact hours before the end of primary school.
I could not give a ****, I could not care.

As an Irish person, the least priority in my life is Gaelic.
 

reg11

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I could not give a ****, I could not care.

As an Irish person, the least priority in my life is Gaelic.
Hear hear. These Gaelgori types insist on shoving Irish down our throats. Would they ever f off. What makes matters worse they're allowed to use our taxes to browbeat us into it.
 

Pyewacket

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Hear hear. These Gaelgori types insist on shoving Irish down our throats. Would they ever f off. What makes matters worse they're allowed to use our taxes to browbeat us into it.
Just another oligarchical ploy to keep down the real Irish.

The shits who made their fortune from the War of Independence did not do it for you, dear.
 

APettigrew92

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For those who don't understand, I'll spell it out: English spelling is incredibly irregular which makes it difficult to learn to read English. Most other languages with an alphabet (we're not discussing Chinese here) are not so difficult, and so dyslexia is rarer for instance, among Spanish or Italian or Finnish speakers than among English speakers.
That's not true. Dyslexia is as common across the board, however when a language with a high degree of coherence between the phoneme - the sound - and the grapheme - the spelling/transcription - is the language of instruction, the effects of dyslexia are far less marked. Difficulty with reading remains a constant.

In a country where the government wanted to promote a language, if dyslexia in the target language was a genuine problem, they would develop a program to allow those with the difficulty to become proficient in the language to whatever extent they could.
The problem that you're touching on is more universal and applies to the entire Irish teaching system.

In no language, forget Irish, is speaking sufficient at all levels. You can go to a University language class and hear a final-year degree student butcher any language of your choosing.

There is a general failure in languages across the board, regardless of learning difficulty.

The main problem with learning Irish at school is that there are not enough contact hours in a school career to lead to fluency. The general understanding is that 5,000 contact hours are required to reach fluency. These do not need to be at school of course - they could be watching TV, listening to the radio, social activities and the like.
Of course this does not apply to Gaelscoileanna, as there are more than 5000 contact hours before the end of primary school.
5,000? Where on earth did you get the figure? To achieve fluency in most European languages, you require 1,500 to 2,000. How is Irish 5,000 when Chinese and Arabic only clock in at 4,000 and they feature an entirely different script?

Irish is not difficult. If Finns can learn their native language, Swedish, German and English and be proficient in all by the age of 18 then perhaps we need to rethink what is wrong with the system rather than what is wrong with Irish.

The measure you outlined is just another example of pure laziness on behalf of the Education system. Speaking practice is the weakest link in the teaching of languages in Ireland. Dyslexics can learn anything as long as their weaknesses are less exposed by tireless and boring grammar/reading exercises.
 

McTell

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No
//

Not so in Ireland. We say, this child can't read English well, so we won't look into any difficulties involved in reading Irish, and we won't develop a suitable plan to teach Irish - we'll exempt him/her from learning Irish.

Needless to say, this will go down well with the D4 set.

And go down well with 99% of us. If the language enthusiasts would only speak irish solid for a week every month, then it would start to become normal again.

Instead the enthusiasts suit themselves, and guilt trip thousands of kids to learn the mod version of our old language. They are hobbyists that cost the state over a € billion a year.

Can we translate "not fit for purpose" ??
 

Baron von Biffo

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I see that the government has decided that being dyslexic in English can get you an exemption from Irish now, according to d'Indo.
I'm not quite sure how to take this: dyslexia is a difficulty some people have with reading, and for obvious reasons those educated through English suffer from it more than most.

For those who don't understand, I'll spell it out: English spelling is incredibly irregular which makes it difficult to learn to read English. Most other languages with an alphabet (we're not discussing Chinese here) are not so difficult, and so dyslexia is rarer for instance, among Spanish or Italian or Finnish speakers than among English speakers.

In a country where the government wanted to promote a language, if dyslexia in the target language was a genuine problem, they would develop a program to allow those with the difficulty to become proficient in the language to whatever extent they could.

Not so in Ireland. We say, this child can't read English well, so we won't look into any difficulties involved in reading Irish, and we won't develop a suitable plan to teach Irish - we'll exempt him/her from learning Irish.

Needless to say, this will go down well with the D4 set.
Dyslexics lure!
 

Clanrickard

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I could not give a ****, I could not care.

As an Irish person, the least priority in my life is Gaelic.
*sniff* *sniff* Yup. As I suspected. Troll.
 

Big Phil

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The author of this thread is attempting to advance a false argument that has no basis in fact.

If someone is dyslexic, they are dyslexic in all languages. You cannot be dyslexic in English and not in all other languages. That is physically impossible!

While there are many different types of dyslexia, people who are dyslexic have a specific problem with learning languages.

Many people who suffer from dyslexia also suffer from auditory processing disorder. This is a listening disability that affects the ability to process auditory information. This can lead to problems with auditory memory and auditory sequencing. This condition is of particular relevance when it comes to attempting to learn languages.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Came across a strange one some years ago where someone (very high performing and productive) suddenly nosedived in terms of both productivity and performance. It was something of a mystery until it was realised that the main software platform the person was using had been updated, and the colour scheme in the user interface had changed dramatically.

Turns out the person concerned had a colour perception difficulty which had lain undiagnosed for a long time. The solution was simple. One of the technical bods came along and changed the colours on the screen to black and white, back came the high performance and previous high levels of productivity.

I believe certain colours can trigger a sort of aphasia in persons with this background condition.
 

APettigrew92

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The author of this thread is attempting to advance a false argument that has no basis in fact.

If someone is dyslexic, they are dyslexic in all languages. You cannot be dyslexic in English and not in all other languages. That is physically impossible!

While there are many different types of dyslexia, people who are dyslexic have a specific problem with learning languages.

Many people who suffer from dyslexia also suffer from auditory processing disorder. This is a listening disability that affects the ability to process auditory information. This can lead to problems with auditory memory and auditory sequencing. This condition is of particular relevance when it comes to attempting to learn languages.
You are correct with your first point - dyslexia is dyslexia across the board. The simple fact is that the degree of coherence between the written language and the spoken language may alleviate the apparent severity of the condition. It is a neurological disorder and as such it is more to do with the processing and decoding of stimuli rather than the stimuli itself.

Many types of dyslexia? No, this is a falsehood. There are many types of "dys" - specific learning difficulties - but dyslexia is but one of these. Other "dys" include dyspraxia, dysorthographia and dysphasia. Many children afflicted with dyslexia are "multi-dys" - that is to say that they may be dyslexic and dyspraxic or dyspraxic and dysphasic. There are also indications that hyperactivity disorders and dys-disorders are linked in some manner on a neurological level.

None of these prevent a student from learning a language in the absolute sense. What often hinders dys-students is the fact that they never master their native language which renders language learning very difficult indeed. They often never master their own language due to a hefty overreliance on the written word rather than the spoken.
 

McTell

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No
Yesterday I was in dublin at the corner of Ormond Quay and Capel Street and saw this street sign on the quay in solid 3-D cast iron that reads

"Cé Urumhan D7"

A dyslexic person had made it, as I think it should be Cé Urmhumhan.

Then downriver I see "Marlborough" translated by another dyslexic as "Maoil Bride", which means servant of Brigid.
 

Big Phil

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Apettigrew92 you don't know what you are talking about! Ignorance is no defence. There are decades of research available on dyslexia.

There are multiple types of dyslexia. These include Phonological Dyslexia, Surface Dyslexia, Double Deficit Dyslexia, Visual Dyslexia, Primary Dyslexia, Secondary/Developmental Dyslexia, Trauma Dyslexia, Linguistic Dyslexia and many more.

It is a scientific fact that people who are dyslexic have a specific problem with learning languages.

Traditionally, the Irish language movement has always been seen as the sworn enemy of those with learning disabilities in this country. This is in part due to the disinformation that they continuously pump out.

The rubbish on this thread that some poster's are attempting to pass-off as fact illustrates this perfectly.

The Irish language movement is essentially nothing more than a deeply dishonest pro-discrimination movement.
 

DJP

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Traditionally, the Irish language movement has always been seen as the sworn enemy of those with learning disabilities in this country. This is in part due to the disinformation that they continuously pump out.

...

The Irish language movement is essentially nothing more than a deeply dishonest pro-discrimination movement.
I'm no subscriber to the funded Irish language community or most of it, but I fail to see how that movement to date is "pro-discrimination" and "the enemy of those with learning disabilities in the country" and I don't know that you mean by "disinformation" that they continuously put out.
 


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