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E-mail and chat data to be stored 'within a month'


A

Asi-Irish

What the hell?

E-mail and chat data to be stored 'within a month'

Records of e-mails and internet chat messages sent and received by Irish residents - and the times they log on and off the internet - will have to be stored for three years. The scheme will be implemented within a month.

The Irish Times has learned the Department of Justice intends to effect a controversial EU data retention directive affecting e-mail and web usage "within a month", according to a department spokeswoman.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontp ... 60420.html
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
Asi-Irish said:
What the hell?

E-mail and chat data to be stored 'within a month'

Records of e-mails and internet chat messages sent and received by Irish residents - and the times they log on and off the internet - will have to be stored for three years. The scheme will be implemented within a month.

The Irish Times has learned the Department of Justice intends to effect a controversial EU data retention directive affecting e-mail and web usage "within a month", according to a department spokeswoman.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontp ... 60420.html
Been in the pipeline for about 5-6 years. A lot of this is from McDowell (article from 2005):

After pushing a framework decision on data retention at the EU, Ireland's Government has decided to focus on its national parliament and to pass a law on data retention there. Data retention was snuck into the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act, first introduced in 2002, in the final hours before the Bill became law in February 2005.

The law now calls for three years data retention at all phone companies that provide fixed line and mobile services. The obligation does not extend to more complex information such as location data.

In April 2002, the Minister for Public Enterprise issued directions at the request of the Minister of Justice to oblige service providers to retain data for at least three years. The Government argued that this was a necessary temporary bridging of the gap between the transposition of the EU Directive on privacy and electronic communications into Irish law. This is misleading because the 2002 Directive did not require data retention.
There is now such a Directive, but our lovely government is going well in excess of what's required:

The Directive requires member states of the EU to pass into law an obligation for telecoms providers to retain phone, email and web traffic data for up to two years. Opposed by civil rights groups, the Directive was passed in order to help states to combat crime and terrorism.
Our government is taking a case in the European Court of Justice because "we" wanted "tougher" rules, and didn't get them. Don't let them claim they're being forced into this!
 

Reece

Member
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
57
Asi-Irish said:
What the hell?

E-mail and chat data to be stored 'within a month'

Records of e-mails and internet chat messages sent and received by Irish residents - and the times they log on and off the internet - will have to be stored for three years. The scheme will be implemented within a month.

The Irish Times has learned the Department of Justice intends to effect a controversial EU data retention directive affecting e-mail and web usage "within a month", according to a department spokeswoman.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontp ... 60420.html
This is really unimportant - of far more concern to our nation and our future, to our privacy and our economic and political independence is why Bertie does not have a tax complinace certificate. :)
 

Electro

Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
91
This is really unimportant - of far more concern to our nation and our future, to our privacy and our economic and political independence is why Bertie does not have a tax complinace certificate.
Shea right it is... :roll:
 

constitutionus

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
23,330
am i the only one who sees the shed load of fun you could have with this?

we could all start emailing our mates with stuff like " look just tell osama, if he can get me the stuff i can get it into the dail nae bother"

:D :D :D

personally i reckon the system will probably shut down with all the porn and viagra spam !
 

generick

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
45
Still though, its an alarming precedent.

Mind you, the Brits and the US have been doing this for years, so the irish government is really behind the times.....

Although, from my (limited) readings of the EU treaties, it would appear that this should fall foul of the right to privacy enshrined in the document. Unless of course this is under the terrorism get out clause.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
How can this work? I'm I'm sending an e-mail using, say, a gmail server located in the US, how can the Internet Service Provider here know and record that fact?

What about when I use a VPN network to access my office computer, thats an encrypted connection.

BT (Ireland) may know when I log on and off the internet, but how can they tell what I'm actually doing online?
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
D.Harry said:
seabhcan said:
How can this work? I'm I'm sending an e-mail using, say, a gmail server located in the US, how can the Internet Service Provider here know and record that fact?

What about when I use a VPN network to access my office computer, thats an encrypted connection.

BT (Ireland) may know when I log on and off the internet, but how can they tell what I'm actually doing online?
If you have to go to such lengths to avoid the state knowing your business then that alone should set your alarm bells ringing.
It may soon be that seeking to avoid state recording may become an offence. Who knows where this will lead.
If that was the case it would make VPNs and Gmail illegal. The business world couldn't exist without VPNs.
 

jpc

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Jun 14, 2007
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4,339
Like O Linihean with the implicit threat on the news papers make people think first about they will say.Ideas and opinions aren't particularly welcomed by the state.
 

ibis

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Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
seabhcan said:
D.Harry said:
seabhcan said:
How can this work? I'm I'm sending an e-mail using, say, a gmail server located in the US, how can the Internet Service Provider here know and record that fact?

What about when I use a VPN network to access my office computer, thats an encrypted connection.

BT (Ireland) may know when I log on and off the internet, but how can they tell what I'm actually doing online?
If you have to go to such lengths to avoid the state knowing your business then that alone should set your alarm bells ringing.
It may soon be that seeking to avoid state recording may become an offence. Who knows where this will lead.
If that was the case it would make VPNs and Gmail illegal. The business world couldn't exist without VPNs.
Very true. In fact, much like airport security, there is little "security" in this. It will be handy ammo for the state if it needs it, but anyone with a bit of savvy can get around it - and as seabhcan has pointed out, the use of VPNs and encryption is both widespread and perfectly above board. Do you imagine for a moment that US multinationals will be allowing the Irish government to look at their network traffic?
 

Rural

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Apr 28, 2007
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27,927
Anyone who gives personal details - thoughts - feelings, via the Internet or E-mail is mad. these things are so easy to infiltrate.

I remember my Granny, long ago, she was a girl during the civil war & to the day she died, she would never give any information over the telephone. She grew up in the days when one had to phone an operator to put you through to a phone line, the operator (out of boredom) was known to listen to every call they put through. People therefore became very secretive about their conversations over the telephone.

Nowadays, people have become a bit easy going about their details & conversations. Sorry, lads, things are even worse nowadays, there are loads of weirdos etc. who trawl for people's details to use for the wrong reason. I worry less about the Government or Europe keeping my E-mail/Internet details, than I do about some weirdo out there in the world.
 

ibis

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D.Harry said:
I can envisage corporations and companies being licensed to use VPNs and encryption. They will then give an undertaking to monitor their own networks and to report any suspect traffic. Not so the ordinary citizen. Maybe, maybe not. There are means and ways.
The main point is that this will be, in my opinion, the single most intrusive and sinister piece of legislation since the foundation of the state. It is equivalent to recording the names and addresses of every piece of mail that arrives at or leaves your house. It may soon become equivalent to opening and photocopying your mail.
The fact that it has its origins in Europe strengthens the case of those who have claimed all along that Europe is headed for a form of totalitarianism.
Since Ireland had data retention laws in place before the European Directive, pushed for the European Directive, has gone beyond the terms of the European Directive, and is taking the EU to court because it doesn't think the European Directive is strong enough - let us not absolve the Irish government of this.

People may find the Wikipedia page useful.
 

wizzard

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Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
27
same old question arises which it comes to issues increased surveillance: who's watching the watchers?
 

ibis

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wizzard said:
same old question arises which it comes to issues increased surveillance: who's watching the watchers?
You mean...who's stopping the lads at the ISP accessing the data? Or who's stopping the government from misusing the data? Or making sure it doesn't get lost on laptops? Or...?
 

Dubliner

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Jan 19, 2004
Messages
128
seabhcan said:
Unless you're e-mail address is provided by your ISP, I don't see how they would know your sending an e-mail.
Well, if you're using a POP3 client, they can easily intercept your mail as it passes over the network and copy the details required by our secret police. Sending an e-mail is as private as sending a postcard.

Bit more tricky if it's a web-client especially over SSL. But the authorities in the country where the mail server is located will probably get access.

I think your cell-phone location data is covered too.

Next step is to require people to hand over their passwords & encryption keys on demand.

The most immediate impact is an increase is costs for ISPs as they'll have to store large amounts of data and make it available on demand to various state agencies as required.
 
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