Each Public Services Card is a net cost to us of €5.51 net of all anti fraud savings, or €16.53 million in total

RodShaft

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Each Public Services Card is a net cost to us of €5.51 net of all anti fraud savings, or €16.53 million in total

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/average-fraud-saving-of-1-16-for-each-public-services-card-issued-1.3173443


The headline on this article is very wrong. It suggests each card has save us €1.16 because 2.23 million cards issued have resulted in fraud reductions of €2.58 million.


However the article also states that by the end of the year 3 million cards will have been issued, and that the cost to us will be €60 million by the end of the year. At that rate, they will have fraud reductions of €3.47 million, so the net cost to us of putting in this big brother system will be a net cost of €16.53 million or €5.51 per card.

We may as well be burning money as putting these morons in charge.
 


Mushroom

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/average-fraud-saving-of-1-16-for-each-public-services-card-issued-1.3173443

The headline on this article is very wrong. It suggests each card has save us €1.16 because 2.23 million cards issued have resulted in fraud reductions of €2.58 million.

However the article also states that by the end of the year 3 million cards will have been issued, and that the cost to us will be €60 million by the end of the year. At that rate, they will have fraud reductions of €3.47 million, so the net cost to us of putting in this big brother system will be a net cost of €16.53 million or €5.51 per card.

We may as well be burning money as putting these morons in charge.

On the subject of morons, will the amount saved from fraud reduction be a one-off saving, or will it continue into the future?
 

Mad as Fish

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On the subject of morons, will the amount saved from fraud reduction be a one-off saving, or will it continue into the future?
First of all how do they come up with these figures and if they really are all about fraud prevention then why are they needed to obtain a driving licence and passport? Both required for freedom of travel!

It is worth repeating that this sort of database is specifically outlawed in Germany due to its potential misuse.
 

Mad as Fish

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On the subject of morons, will the amount saved from fraud reduction be a one-off saving, or will it continue into the future?
Firstly I wonder whether 2.23 million cards have actually been issued, shades of lies about people signing up for IW, secondly the card itself is just a front for a huge and intrusive database that will be abused, what do we know about its set up, its operation, its security, its purpose and so on? Nothing, is the answer to that. Thirdly, this type of database was abandoned by David Cameron as his first act as Prime minister as it was considered an affront to the privacy and freedom of the individual, fourthly just how much is this system going to cost to maintain and who is responsible for any leaks or misuse of the data? Can we sue the government if our identity is stolen and used by others? Talk about the stupidity of the people who are responsible, did they ever think twice about putting all this information in one place and how attractive it would become to the more dishonest element within society?

The whole thing has been rushed through without thought or debate and is going to end in a bigger sob fest than water charges if a halt isn't put to it immediately. It is set to become another tremendous feck up, mark my words.
 
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Roll_On

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stupid article, long term benefits not considered and the deterrent provided against fraudsters is not considered.
 

Mad as Fish

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stupid article, long term benefits not considered and the deterrent provided against fraudsters is not considered.
And those long term benefits will typically accrue to fraudsters stealing your identity, easily done with so much information held in one place. And then how are you going to obtain redress?
 

Mad as Fish

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Ok, where are all these benefits articulated and evidenced?

If it is such a slam dunk, why has this not been formally discussed and approved by Dail vote?
Agreed, 101%!
 

Mad as Fish

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A working example of the sheer idiocy of this scam.

You lose your ID card, or it is stolen, so how are you going to get another one? Easy, you go along with your passport and driving licence to prove who you are. But hang on, how did you get your passport and driving licence to begin with? Yep, by producing the ID card, so how do the welfare people know that a stolen ID card was not used to obtain the those documents in the first place and you are who you say you are?

It renders the Irish passport and driving licence useless as ID documents, which may well be deliberate as it forces you to have an ID card, but I'm not sure they are that smart.
 
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Mad as Fish

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BTW, the ultimate test of how secure this ID card is whether the banks want anything to do with it, they have their systems which they'll protect from any potential threat such as this.
 

Mushroom

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It is worth repeating that this sort of database is specifically outlawed in Germany due to its potential misuse.
First - I made no reference to whatsoever to any "sort of database" so you pulled that one straight out of your hole.

Second - if you don't like it here, then by all means f**k off to Germany. And bring a friend - if you can find one.
 

Mad as Fish

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First - I made no reference to whatsoever to any "sort of database" so you pulled that one straight out of your hole.

Second - if you don't like it here, then by all means f**k off to Germany. And bring a friend - if you can find one.
As I have already pointed out, the card is just a front for a database of Ireland's citizens. It is a horrendous concept and one that will end in tears as the stupidity of what is being attempted begins to dawn on the Irish. It must be stopped before it is too late and we render all forms of ID useless.
 

clearmurk

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BTW, the ultimate test of how secure this ID card is whether the banks want anything to do with it, they have their systems which they'll protect from any potential threat such as this.
I have asked this before, to deafening silence.

Do any financial institutions accept this national ID card as evidence of identity?
 

Mushroom

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I have asked this before, to deafening silence. Do any financial institutions accept this national ID card as evidence of identity?
What bank/financial institution did you ask?
 

Mad as Fish

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I have asked this before, to deafening silence.

Do any financial institutions accept this national ID card as evidence of identity?
The silence in general is deafening, for two main reasons I think

1. Whoever is behind this has learnt some lessons from water charges and is trying to sneak it in under the radar and have it all done and dusted before it is noticed.

2. They have not a clue what they are doing and are terrified of being challenged.

The UK was threatened with them and got its act together to fight them off -

NO2ID is a public campaign group, formed in 2004 to campaign against the United Kingdom government's plans to introduce UK ID Cards and the associated National Identity Register (NIR), which it believes has negative implications for privacy, civil liberties and personal safety. The NIR and ID cards were repealed in 2010 by the Identity Documents Act of that year; since then, it has been involved in other campaigns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NO2ID
 

Roberto Jordan

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A working example of the sheer idiocy of this scam.

You lose your ID card, or it is stolen, so how are you going to get another one? Easy, you go along with your passport and driving licence to prove who you are. But hang on, how did you get your passport and driving licence to begin with? Yep, by producing the ID card, so how do the welfare people know that a stolen ID card was not used to obtain the those documents in the first place and you are who you say you are?

It renders the Irish passport and driving licence useless as ID documents, which may well be deliberate as it forces you to have an ID card, but I'm not sure they are that smart.
I got my current passport by including pictures taken 14 years after the prior picture were taken ( I used oooold photos with the last application) featuring me with a beard ( a brief and regrettable dalliance this spring ), 5 kg lighter ( no longer on a weights program for hurling) , a tan (no longer toiling in the land of bog & rain) and hair 6 inches shorter & thinner. Consequently I would have not been surprised if at first second or third glance there were doubts about veracity of identity..,..
But fear not, the quaint irish system , rooted as it is in the dual policing & intelligence functions of the RIC in colonial ireland, requires a signature of an upstanding professional.....so I had one of my direct reports, a nice young man from Missouri who still has an active accountancy charter , to sign the pictures and form without asking questions.......

Its all BS of course, including your supposed fears.....in actually free & open societys one goes to teh post office, fills in a form and shows a validating form of ID such as a social security card......as we have done for our kids US passports......for their Irish passports we had to pay $10 to a pharmacist on the corner who has a notary license for him to confirm the kids whom he has never seen before or since are who we say they are.....still beats standing in a grim provincial AGS station looking at public safety notices for potato blight and stray dogs, waiting for a cranky female Garda to sign forms once she forgives you for interrupting her meal break....
 

Mad as Fish

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The UK identity Documents act of 2010 -

The Identity Documents Act 2010 (c. 40) is an Act of Parliament in the United Kingdom which reverses the introduction of identity cards and requires the destruction of the information held on the National Identity Register.

Interesting to note who was given the job of introducing it -

As a bill, it was presented to the House of Commons by Home Secretary Theresa May on 26 May 2010, making it the first government bill to be introduced to the 55th Parliament of the United Kingdom by the Cameron ministry.

And the act did several things -


Cancel all existing ID cards within one month of Royal Assent
Remove the statutory requirement to issue ID Cards
Cancel the National Identity Register
Require the destruction of all data held on the Register within one month of Royal Assent
Close the Office of the Identity Commissioner
Re-enact some criminal offences (possession or use of false identity documents) and certain other measures contained in the Identity Cards Act 2006

Although the Act ends the validity of ID cards as travel documents, no action will be taken to withdraw the National Identity Cards already issued.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Documents_Act_2010

Yet in Ireland we don't even know the scope of the information held or how it is to be used, is there even an equivalent to the National Identity register?
 

Mad as Fish

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I got my current passport by including pictures taken 14 years after the prior picture were taken ( I used oooold photos with the last application) featuring me with a beard ( a brief and regrettable dalliance this spring ), 5 kg lighter ( no longer on a weights program for hurling) , a tan (no longer toiling in the land of bog & rain) and hair 6 inches shorter & thinner. Consequently I would have not been surprised if at first second or third glance there were doubts about veracity of identity..,..
But fear not, the quaint irish system , rooted as it is in the dual policing & intelligence functions of the RIC in colonial ireland, requires a signature of an upstanding professional.....so I had one of my direct reports, a nice young man from Missouri who still has an active accountancy charter , to sign the pictures and form without asking questions.......

Its all BS of course, including your supposed fears.....in actually free & open societys one goes to teh post office, fills in a form and shows a validating form of ID such as a social security card......as we have done for our kids US passports......for their Irish passports we had to pay $10 to a pharmacist on the corner who has a notary license for him to confirm the kids whom he has never seen before or since are who we say they are.....still beats standing in a grim provincial AGS station looking at public safety notices for potato blight and stray dogs, waiting for a cranky female Garda to sign forms once she forgives you for interrupting her meal break....
What exactly is a social security card in Ireland?
 

galteeman

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Why are people so worried about the sharing of information? The people who benefit from secrecy are usually up to no good.
 

Mad as Fish

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It gets worse, thew feckin government want you mobile number as well to obtain this card -

You should also bring your mobile phone, if you have one. Having your mobile phone with you when you are SAFE registered means that we can “pair” that mobile phone number with you.


I bet they want to pair your mobile phone number as that allows instant tracking of you.
 


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