Eamon de Valera on the European Economic Community

Connollyist a/c no.2

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The following is from Ronan fanning's book about dev, its page two hundred and fifty nine.

"Publicly de Valera silently acquesced in Ireland's entry into the EEC when it was approved by a huge 83 percent of voters. He told his youngest son Terry that 'he acknowledged that entry was inevetible', but 'he accepts this with very strong reservations regarding the loss of sovereignty. He agreed fully with the concept of the development of trade and commerce and the more desirable aspects of culture from the continent of europe. Political union or the dimunition or loss of sovereignty was quite a different matter in which the smaller nations would fare worst. another son, Ruairi who was a colleague of mine at University College Dublin would not be drawn on how his father had voted in the referedum but smiled and did not dissent when I suggested he would have voted no."

If de valera, the only surviving commander of the easter rising opposed the eec there is no way in hell he would support the eu now. Its time for an Irexit as european union membership is an obstacle to achieving the Irish republic as proclaimed in the easter proclamation.
 


Deadlock

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From your post

Publicly de Valera silently acquesced in Ireland's entry into the EEC when it was approved by a huge 83 percent of voters.
Is popular opinion, democratically expressed, anathema in your concept of a Republic?
 

Connollyist a/c no.2

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I repeat my question, maybe this time you'll read it - Is popular opinion, democratically expressed, anathema in your concept of a Republic?
no, the irish republic is based on that. If you are not a sovereign state and instead a part of a continental state-like organisation it is inevitable that the popular opinion of smaller nations will be subverted to the popular opinion of bigger nations like france and germany. Your own logic is self-defeating.

why do you want the future of the irish people to be determined by france and germany as opposed to the Irish people?
 

GDPR

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He knew his onions, did Dev, but then I suppose he would, being part Spanish.
 

Deadlock

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no, the irish republic is based on that. If you are not a sovereign state and instead a part of a continental state-like organisation it is inevitable that the popular opinion of smaller nations will be subverted to the popular opinion of bigger nations like france and germany. Your own logic is self-defeating.

why do you want the future of the irish people to be determined by france and germany as opposed to the Irish people?
Your hypothesis requires withdrawal from a body, to whom accession has been democratically mandated. A body which at each stage of it's development, uniquely in that body, Ireland voted to mandate. Explain why the achievement of this Republican ideal necessitate withdrawal against wishes of the populace.

I don't wish the future of anyone to be determined by anybody else. That is why I read, research and understand very seriously the measures upon I am asked to vote in referenda. That is why we have referenda.
 
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If Dev didn't approve of something, chances are it was a brilliant idea.
 

Connollyist a/c no.2

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Your hypothesis requires withdrawal from a body, to whom accession has been democratically mandated. A body which at each stage of it's development, uniquely in that body, Ireland voted to mandate. Explain why the achievement of this Republican ideal necessitate withdrawal against wishes of the populace.

I don't wish the future of anyone to be determined by anybody else. That is why I read, research and understand very seriously the measures upon I am asked to vote in referenda. That is why we have referenda.
ok well first of all the people dont even understand what they voted for. If you were to pick 2000 people off the streets of Dublin and say "what did the lisbon treaty propose?" or "how does the european union reach decisions?" or some other test to that effect I am 99 percent sure all 2000 would fail.

second of all overriding one democratic wish is nothing compared to the endless democratic wishes that will be overided by the European commission and the european council. I have already touched upon how a tiny nation like Ireland will be trampled on by the big nations like germany and france.
 

forest

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we should leave the EU because Devalera may have opposed it
Sure that makes sense
 

Deadlock

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ok well first of all the people dont even understand what they voted for. If you were to pick 2000 people off the streets of Dublin and say "what did the lisbon treaty propose?" or "how does the european union reach decisions?" or some other test to that effect I am 99 percent sure all 2000 would fail.

second of all overriding one democratic wish is nothing compared to the endless democratic wishes that will be overided by the European commission and the european council. I have already touched upon how a tiny nation like Ireland will be trampled on by the big nations like germany and france.
Translation - people are thick and will vote for what ever is put in front of them? I beg to differ. When Mary Coughlan was Tanaiste and campaigning for acceptance of the Lisbon Treaty, ordinary people up and down the nation were able to tell she was wrong as she babbled on about Germany, France, Italy and the UK retaining two Commissioners, and correct her on it.

Ireland has had multiple referenda on membership and development of the EU. The Third, Tenth, Eleventh, Eighteenth, Twenty Fourth (Rejected), Twenty Sixth (Carried), Twenty Eighth (x2), and Thirtieth Amendments.

Ireland has, and always has had, an equal voice in how this Union develops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Coughlan_(politician)
 
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Connollyist a/c no.2

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Translation - people are thick and will vote for what ever is put in front of them?

Ireland has had multiple referenda on membership and development of the EU. The Third, Tenth, Eleventh, Eighteenth, Twenty Fourth (Rejected), Twenty Sixth (Carried), Twenty Eighth (x2), and Thirtieth Amendments.

Ireland has, and always has had, an equal voice in how this Union develops.
even if that was a correct "translation" why would that be relevant?

thats crap and you know it. Do you not know how qualified majority voting works? equal voice my arse.
 

GDPR

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Translation - people are thick and will vote for what ever is put in front of them?

Ireland has had multiple referenda on membership and development of the EU. The Third, Tenth, Eleventh, Eighteenth, Twenty Fourth (Rejected), Twenty Sixth (Carried), Twenty Eighth (x2), and Thirtieth Amendments.

Ireland has, and always has had, an equal voice in how this Union develops.
We have practically the only peoples voice on how this union develops, something that should bother you, but apparently doesn't.

My own opinion is that in future our voice on Europe will sound remarkably different.
 

Deadlock

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We have practically the only peoples voice on how this union develops, something that should bother you, but apparently doesn't.

My own opinion is that in future our voice on Europe will sound remarkably different.
Be that as it may - you'll agree I'm sure that we'll still have that voice and the opportunity to exercise is as we wish to.
 

GDPR

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Be that as it may - you'll agree I'm sure that we'll still have that voice and the opportunity to exercise is as we wish to.
Maybe, maybe not. We may well have already painted ourselves into a corner and end up having to accept the least worst option on future union proposals.
 


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