'Economic catastrophe' if new runway at Dublin not built

Schuhart

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https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0625/973083-daa-runway/

DAA Chief Executive Dalton Philips has said it would be an economic catastrophe if a new runway was not built at Dublin Airport.

Speaking at the launch of the capital investment plan for transport, tourism and sport as part of Project Ireland 2040, Mr Dalton described the proposed new 'North' runway as a once in a generation piece of infrastructure.

He said it had to be built by 2021 and that it was important that new legislation was put in place.
I agree that this is actually one of the most important things happening at the moment. I think its worthwhile giving it some thought and discussion; more typically, political discussion is about stuff that actually doesn't relate to how we're all actually going to make a living for the next few decades.

A few comparators:

Dublin currently sees about 30 million international passengers a year. In 2016, Dublin was the 21st busiest international passenger airport in the world. That's a huge achievement, given the constraints the current short runway puts on long haul flights.

The cost of the new Dublin runway is €320 million.

Heathrow has over 70 million international passengers a year - more than double Dublin. Heathrow is the second busiest international passenger airport in the world.

The cost of the new Heathrow runway is £14 billion, or about 50 times the cost of the new Dublin runway.

Heathrow is unlikely to see fifty times the traffic.

Dublin Airport is a national asset that has delivered a lot of good, and can deliver a whole lot more.

(Note: some US and Chinese airports handle large numbers of internal flights, that push both Heathrow and Dublin down the lists if you include domestic traffic.)
 


artfoley56

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I agree that this is actually one of the most important things happening at the moment. I think its worthwhile giving it some thought and discussion; more typically, political discussion is about stuff that actually doesn't relate to how we're all actually going to make a living for the next few decades.

A few comparators:

Dublin currently sees about 30 million international passengers a year. In 2016, Dublin was the 21st busiest international passenger airport in the world. That's a huge achievement, given the constraints the current short runway puts on long haul flights.

The cost of the new Dublin runway is €320 million.

Heathrow has over 70 million international passengers a year - more than double Dublin. Heathrow is the second busiest international passenger airport in the world.

The cost of the new Heathrow runway is £14 billion, or about 50 times the cost of the new Dublin runway.

Heathrow is unlikely to see fifty times the traffic.

Dublin Airport is a national asset that has delivered a lot of good, and can deliver a whole lot more.

(Note: some US and Chinese airports handle large numbers of internal flights, that push both Heathrow and Dublin down the lists if you include domestic traffic.)
even taking the cost of land etc into account, either is wildly overstating the cost of the runway or DAA is wildly understating the cost.

on history, DAA said that t2 would cost 395m, it ended up costing over 900m
 

Betson

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What is so special about the Heathrow runway that it costs 14 billion to build?

Does this cost include compulsory purchase of land etc etc?
 

Erudite Caveman

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Dublin currently sees about 30 million international passengers a year. In 2016, Dublin was the 21st busiest international passenger airport in the world.

(Note: some US and Chinese airports handle large numbers of internal flights, that push both Heathrow and Dublin down the lists if you include domestic traffic.)
Dublin has virtually no domestic traffic so it is kinda useless indicator.

Suffice to say, Dublin Airport is a critical bit of infrastructure and the investment will pay off big time, assuming Tesla or Apple don't invent trans-continental jetpacks in the next 15 years.
 

Orbit v2

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"Economic catastrophe" where is that coming from? I thought they have all the consents to start building. What is stopping them?
 

PO'Neill

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It's always an Economic catastrophe if ordinary people ask for very little like a wage increase/public housing built/immigration of cheap foreign labor is curtailed/govt hand outs in the form of tax "incentives" are stopped/water charges resisted etc

But of course running the country off a cliff leaving debts for generations to come with a Ponzi scheme thanks to Bertie Ahern, Fingers Fingleton, David Drumm etc is applauded by the 'experts' in the media as good business prudence.
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
Surely it can just join the long list of catastrophies....it's what we do here. never affects certain groups pensions though....funny that.
 

Watcher2

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I agree that this is actually one of the most important things happening at the moment. I think its worthwhile giving it some thought and discussion; more typically, political discussion is about stuff that actually doesn't relate to how we're all actually going to make a living for the next few decades.

A few comparators:

Dublin currently sees about 30 million international passengers a year. In 2016, Dublin was the 21st busiest international passenger airport in the world. That's a huge achievement, given the constraints the current short runway puts on long haul flights.

The cost of the new Dublin runway is €320 million.

Heathrow has over 70 million international passengers a year - more than double Dublin. Heathrow is the second busiest international passenger airport in the world.

The cost of the new Heathrow runway is £14 billion, or about 50 times the cost of the new Dublin runway.

Heathrow is unlikely to see fifty times the traffic.

Dublin Airport is a national asset that has delivered a lot of good, and can deliver a whole lot more.

(Note: some US and Chinese airports handle large numbers of internal flights, that push both Heathrow and Dublin down the lists if you include domestic traffic.)
And do you believe it will be built for 320m?

Getting our housing sorted is as much a priority. If workers don't have a place to live, employers wont come.
 

Watcher2

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"Economic catastrophe" where is that coming from? I thought they have all the consents to start building. What is stopping them?
Indeed. And Ray Burke, George Redmond and Liam Lawlor aren't around the get in the way of it. ;)
 

Erudite Caveman

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It's always an Economic catastrophe if ordinary people ask for very little like a wage increase/public housing built/immigration of cheap foreign labor is curtailed/govt hand outs in the form of tax "incentives" are stopped/water charges resisted etc

But of course running the country off a cliff leaving debts for generations to come with a Ponzi scheme thanks to Bertie Ahern, Fingers Fingleton, David Drumm etc is applauded by the 'experts' in the media as good business prudence.
...and not even a tangential reference to an airport.

Well done you.
 

Analyzer

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320 Million ?

The state threw 400 Million Euro in 2008 (what would that be inflation adjusted) at a "bread&circuses" complex that is empty 97% of the time.

And no politician in Kildare Street dared to question it.

Spectacles are imporntant when you are running an institutional state that is rotten with corruption.
 

silverharp

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I know some travellers that will extend the runway for about 10K haigh!
 

Schuhart

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What is so special about the Heathrow runway that it costs 14 billion to build?

Does this cost include compulsory purchase of land etc etc?
They have to move a couple of villages to make space for it, and put a motorway underground.

On the other hand, in the midst of our generally abysmal record on planning, the area around Dublin Airport was kept reasonably protected to facilitate development.
And do you believe it will be built for 320m?

Getting our housing sorted is as much a priority. If workers don't have a place to live, employers wont come.
€320 million is an estimate. But I don't expect it will end up costing £14 billion.

Housing is a problem in Dublin. But Dublin Airport delivers benefits nationally. There isn't a conflict on this one.
 

fifilawe

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I reckon €320m just about covers the "planning, consultants, overseas trips and meetings , negotiations for the financing (PPPF, European Development Fund) compo for the residents "Inconvenienced by the Development.". That is before one sod of earth is moved by the earthmoving equipment.
 

Mike McIntyres Rolex

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If that investment was to be made at Baldonnell instead, opening a new civilian airport there may make expansion easier and ease planning concerns. It would be relatively easier and cheaper to develop infrastructure at Baldonnel as opposed to Dublin Airport.
 

Roll_On

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If that investment was to be made at Baldonnell instead, opening a new civilian airport there may make expansion easier and ease planning concerns. It would be relatively easier and cheaper to develop infrastructure at Baldonnel as opposed to Dublin Airport.
Has been investigated and dismissed out of hand, the point of the scheme is to give Dublin capacity, particularly long haul capacity that will appeal to carriers seeking a new hub airport. Belfast has two airports, an abyslmal decision that has resulted in no long haul flights and no connectivity. You'd want to be a mega City like London or New York to justify multiple airports.
 

Mike McIntyres Rolex

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Has been investigated and dismissed out of hand, the point of the scheme is to give Dublin capacity, particularly long haul capacity that will appeal to carriers seeking a new hub airport. Belfast has two airports, an abyslmal decision that has resulted in no long haul flights and no connectivity. You'd want to be a mega City like London or New York to justify multiple airports.
Thanks for your very interesting reply. It was news to me the Baldonnel option had been considered.

DAA has some further background. They are basically reactivting the proposed development already given permission in 2007, and suspended due to the recession. So land has already been purchased and awaits the development, explaining perhaps the 'cheapness' of the proposal vis-a-vis T2 infrastructure.

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/daa-to-build-new-runway-at-dublin-airport
 

Eire1976

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What is so special about the Heathrow runway that it costs 14 billion to build?

Does this cost include compulsory purchase of land etc etc?
Maybe 10 layers of middlemen who all have to be paid more than the next
 

Roll_On

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Comparing Heathrow to Dublin is pointless. Heathrow's boundary is completely surrounded by dual carriageways and beyond that, suburban housing, the scope for expansion is extremely limited. Expansion of Heathrow means moving people out in their thousands and moving motorways. The UK govt may be better advised to build a high speed railway between Heathrow and Gatwick and spend the spare money expanding Gatwick as a sort of twin airport solution.

But try and tell the Brits about publicly owned railways.
 


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