Economy? Society? Which is it?



Mossy Heneberry

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Personally I would say that the libertarian lie consists in the universal assertion that the human being is primarily motivated by covetousness and such like.
Well you're wrong.
 

roc_

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Well you're wrong.
We are talking about free-market, laissez faire, libertarianism? - I only assumed this from all of your posts and shibboleths on hayek, mises, the gold standard, and all of the rest of the dogma from that dark corner of economic beliefs... You are using the term 'libertarianism' in the sense of bourgeois freedom and interests, no?
 

constitutionus

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matt coopers last word show just announcing that the figure to be cut by 2014 is 15 BILLION.

thought i just throw this in here as wheter were an economy or a socitey this is gonna effect it big time.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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We are talking about free-market, laissez faire, libertarianism? - I only assumed this from all of your posts and shibboleths on hayek, mises, the gold standard, and all of the rest of the dogma from that dark corner of economic beliefs... You are using the term 'libertarianism' in the sense of bourgeois freedom and interests, no?
Yes, as opposed to your corrupt statism view points that I get from reading your posts.

Why do you have a problem with people trading and working together in an open, free and fair manner? Why do you think we need an army of politicians, quangocrats et al to manage and regulate our affairs, our social and business interactions?

Also, and I don't mean to be rude, but please look up the definition of dogma.
 

roc_

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Yes, as opposed to your corrupt statism view points that I get from reading your posts.

Why do you have a problem with people trading and working together in an open, free and fair manner? Why do you think we need an army of politicians, quangocrats et al to manage and regulate our affairs, our social and business interactions?

Also, and I don't mean to be rude, but please look up the definition of dogma.
I'm not statist by any means. I'd be more of a far left libertarian if you hjad to choose a label. With the proviso that it would become necessary for such a society to devise certain mechanisms to regulate their economic activity. However, they could democratically devise and implement these mechanisms rather than leave a government to do it. And I only acknowledge that a self-regulating free market is a myth as evidenced by all of the times in history it has emerged. It tends to concentrate wealth up at the top, and we only need look towards Reagan or Thatcher for evidence of such facts as the further myth of for example, the 'trickle-down' effect. There is nothing wrong with people associating and working together, but there is when there is a price put on everything... There is when things like land and labour get commoditised to the sky... There is when property rights are defended above all else... I know well the meaning of dogma.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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I'm not statist by any means. I'd be more of a far left libertarian if you hjad to choose a label. With the proviso that it would become necessary for such a society to devise certain mechanisms to regulate their economic activity. However, they could democratically devise and implement these mechanisms rather than leave a government to do it. And I only acknowledge that a self-regulating free market is a myth as evidenced by all of the times in history it has emerged. It tends to concentrate wealth up at the top, and we only need look towards Reagan or Thatcher for evidence of such facts as the further myth of for example, the 'trickle-down' effect. There is nothing wrong with people associating and working together, but there is when there is a price put on everything... There is when things like land and labour get commoditised to the sky... There is when property rights are defended above all else... I know well the meaning of dogma.
Reagan and Thatcher were not Libertarians. They were monetarists and Thatcher was a social conservative.

The current set up with statism does not work and the more the state expands the more problems will occur, let alone the fact that our liberties and freedoms are being eroded.
 

eoghanacht

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This OP is a load of nonsense. Economics is a science. A society is an abstract human concept.
and can they not clash?
we only have to look around us to see our leaders willingness to appease one at the expense of the other.
 

firefly123

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No, really they are not. They are saying that the likes of Bill Gates and Ronald MacDonald have the right to create the whole world in their own image.
I guess cael is an apple mac man and likes his burger king. Or should that be his burger "imperialist pig dog" king
 

Goban Saor

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and can they not clash?
we only have to look around us to see our leaders willingness to appease one at the expense of the other.
Society doesnt exist so it cant clash with anything. Economics is a science and therefore can only clash with ideology.

Seriously look at how stupid your comment is. How can you appease the economy? The economy isnt a person.

When in a relaxed environment people are more productive and there is less poverty. Thats economics. Its retarded to think there is any other way to run a country other than letting people do what they want.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Listening to the various pundits, it is too easy to see Ireland being touted as an economy, not a society.

Even as a capitalist, I can see that that is not beneficial to the country.
This treatment of the country as purely an economy makes for an unhappy, angry populance which makes it more difficult to sell to them, making sellers unhappy and making the Gov't unhappy with lower VAT reciepts.

Balance between economy and society is necessary but apparently the Irish don't do balance. As evinced by the building boom, etc.

The price of everything, the value of nothing. :roll:
Economics isn't all about money. Its a social science that deals with scarcity of resources. Including in that is the welfare and happiness of society. Leisure time is important as well as labour hours. These non money goods and services are dubbed Z goods in economics and cover a range of household items that we do not pay money for, such as child rearing, walking, reading etc.

For example 40 years ago, 1 income per household sufficed, providing more time for child rearing and in-house health care by other household members which were larger and had more time on their hands to carry out these tasks.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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We are talking about free-market, laissez faire, libertarianism? - I only assumed this from all of your posts and shibboleths on hayek, mises, the gold standard, and all of the rest of the dogma from that dark corner of economic beliefs... You are using the term 'libertarianism' in the sense of bourgeois freedom and interests, no?
Nothing makes me more sick than a lesson on morality from somebody who worships the Federal Reserve and Fractional Reserve Banking, institutes that exist for the purposes of funding wars.

Hayek, Mises and Rothbard are anti-war and pro enterprise for ALL, not the select elite that your hero Ben Bernanke is printing all the money out of thin air while the peasants on main street starve.

You either haven't a clue about economics or have some sort of anti social personality disorder.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Reagan and Thatcher were not Libertarians. They were monetarists and Thatcher was a social conservative.

The current set up with statism does not work and the more the state expands the more problems will occur, let alone the fact that our liberties and freedoms are being eroded.
+1

Reagan and Thatcher were statist dictators. Rothbard wrote tons of scathing attacks about them at the time and indeed the Chicago School (AKA Neo Liberalism) back in 1971. Here is some of the stuff from the 80s

The Real Reaganomics by Murray N. Rothbard
 


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