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eight million africans died in war financed by us and uk


neiphin

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The Great Lakes region of Africa. Map created before 1997, when Zaire became the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
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Law Professor Peter Erlinder, Lead Defense Counsel for the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda, says without hesitation that the UK and the US have financed Central African wars in which eight million Africans have died.
As a law professor, and Lead Defense Counsel for the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda, Professor Erlinder is very careful to be sure he has evidence at hand to prove any statement he stands by and he says the evidence for his claim is all here, in his Rwanda Documents Project,
He knows he's on the Rwanda Hit List that journalist and human rights investigator Keith Harmon Snow reported last week, but said that he's expendable because the documents are all there.
He also said that if there had been any international reporters at the ICTR in 2009 when the court ruled that there was no conspiracy to commit genocide in Rwanda, in 1994, the received history of the genocide and Rwandan President Paul Kagame's ruling Rwandan Patriotic Front's justification would have crumbled.
Digital Journal told Professor Erlinder that Kagame had compared the Rwanda Genocide to 09/11 when talking to Christiane Amanpour on CNN last week, and he said, "That would be ironic indeed, wouldn't it? If 9/11 really were a false flag," meaning a false history to rally around, like the received history of the Rwanda Genocide.
But, he didn't want to comment on 09/11 beyond that, without proof in hand. He's a lawyer.
 


neiphin

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yb29bk48q8"]YouTube- UK and US finance Central African wars; eight million Africans die[/ame]
 

west'sawake

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Neiphin

The theme you have touched on here ties in with in another thread that has well argued and well researched points with contrasting views, some of which would be relevant to what you write in the sense that many believe there is a deliberate and concerted effort to control population growth through localised wars, contrived famines, etc . You may know of that thread already, but just in case here it is as your own post might give another angle to it: http://www.politics.ie/foreign-affairs/37933-coming-crisis-american-totalitarianism.html.

Thanks for yours.
 
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Thac0man

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So the Rawadan genocide and 9/11 are part of the same conspiracy. An chain of thought that can only have been incubated in the parellel and well insulted mind of a conspiracy theorist. :rolleyes:
 
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It has always amazed me that what went on in the Congo over the last decade or so (given all the great hoopla that surrounded the end of Zaire and the fall of the Mobutu) has been completely ignored by the outside world. Perhaps as many as six million dead (estimates very, but it is believed that as many as 40,000 or more people are dying every month still, mostly disease and starvation), as many as Jews killed during the holocaust, and even people like the Mbuti pygmies being hunted down like animals and eaten (yes, eaten) by people (called 'the erasers') looking to exterminate them and appropriate the land they live on for minerals.

I have no knowledge of any American or British role in financing or supporting what went on in any way, but the UN has been terrible - it has made statements about human rights but done very little else. Given the sheer scale of what has happened there, it's frankly unbelievable...
 

toughbutfair

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It is Africans killing other Africans. It is NOT Europeans or Americans doing the killing. If we stopped selling them weapons they'd use machetes and clubs to do it.

No guilt here.
 

The Caped Cod

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So the Rawadan genocide and 9/11 are part of the same conspiracy. An chain of thought that can only have been incubated in the parellel and well insulted mind of a conspiracy theorist. :rolleyes:
Try reading what's written and not what you w ant to see;
Digital Journal told Professor Erlinder that Kagame had compared the Rwanda Genocide to 09/11 when talking to Christiane Amanpour on CNN last week, and he said, "That would be ironic indeed, wouldn't it? If 9/11 really were a false flag," meaning a false history to rally around, like the received history of the Rwanda Genocide.
But, he didn't want to comment on 09/11 beyond that, without proof in hand. He's a lawyer.
That's called a comparison.:rolleyes:
 

The Caped Cod

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It is Africans killing other Africans. It is NOT Europeans or Americans doing the killing. If we stopped selling them weapons they'd use machetes and clubs to do it.

No guilt here.
Surprise, surprise. So if I'm selling guns to drug dealers and your family gets caught in a shoot out on the street and die, no guilt here?
 

toughbutfair

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Surprise, surprise. So if I'm selling guns to drug dealers and your family gets caught in a shoot out on the street and die, no guilt here?

Do you deny they'd still be killing each other if they had no guns?

Do you deny they'd simply buy guns from the Chinese or Russians if the yanks and Brits didn't sell them the guns.

No point in wishing for planet perfect, there will always be war and murder. Either the Chinese or the Russians make money from it, or the yanks and Brits will. If none of those do then somebody else will step into the slot.
 

Thac0man

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Try reading what's written and not what you w ant to see;


That's called a comparison.:rolleyes:
What I see is a story that plasters over the complications of Rawadas tribal issues and its Belgian colonial past. Once those things are taken into account, the picture and the full horror of what happened can be explained.

Rawanda is complex, what happened there is too (as much as it was horrific). And the lesson from history that this guy takes is.... the US and UK are responsible. France is up to its neck in the controversey surrounding the Rawandan Genocide, going as far as to arrest a member of the Rawandan government. A government who openly accuse France of actual hands-on involvement in the training of killing squads prior to the Genocide. And what does this looser take from all of that? 'US/UK were responible'.

As an opinion and an argument it is entirely deviod of merit and the mind that produced it (or can believe it) is indeed an insular and limited organism. It is in fact a mindset born out of colonial perceptions, disregarding as it is of 3rd world populations ability to control their own destiny and reap or suffer the consequences thereafter. It is an argument that is based on the principle of not bothering to understand the complexities of places like Rawanda, just pretend the people there are white or don't matter at all.

The place for this video, and comnets about it, is Youtube. The comments above it a blatently reposted from somewhere else and are not linked too. I mean...

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The Great Lakes region of Africa. Map created before 1997, when Zaire became the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Vote up this image!

Law Professor Peter Erlinder, Lead Defense Counsel for the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda, says without hesitation that the UK and the US have financed Central African wars in which eight million Africans have died.
As a law professor, and Lead Defense Counsel for the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda, Professor Erlinder is very careful to be sure he has evidence at hand to prove any statement he stands by and he says the evidence for his claim is all here, in his Rwanda Documents Project,
Can't even be bother to cut and paste properly. Which is ironic as the central theme is assembled in much the same way, only more selectively. But hey, 8 million dead can't be wrong can they? And all those "central african wars" did involve directly the US and UK right? They are, as is claimed responsible. Or is the list another cut and paste to make the numbers fit? Hell in that context the author may aswell disregard the dead of Rawanda all together.
 
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loaf

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Do you deny they'd still be killing each other if they had no guns?

Do you deny they'd simply buy guns from the Chinese or Russians if the yanks and Brits didn't sell them the guns.

No point in wishing for planet perfect, there will always be war and murder. Either the Chinese or the Russians make money from it, or the yanks and Brits will. If none of those do then somebody else will step into the slot.
But surely politics is about changing the world? Do you really believe war, murder, exploitation and brutal inequality are NECESSARY parts of human social existence? If you do then fair enough. I disagree - and no amount of debate is going to settle that argument.
 

The Caped Cod

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Do you deny they'd still be killing each other if they had no guns?

Do you deny they'd simply buy guns from the Chinese or Russians if the yanks and Brits didn't sell them the guns.

No point in wishing for planet perfect, there will always be war and murder. Either the Chinese or the Russians make money from it, or the yanks and Brits will. If none of those do then somebody else will step into the slot.
Do you deny that drug dealers would have knife fights if they had no guns, though the death toll would be less and the risk to your family reduced?

Do you think that they are just selling weapons to sell weapons? They weapons are aid in exchange for favourable relations should a particualr group gain power, and even if they don't gain power they create enough region destabilisation for the supplier to exploit.

So if I didn't arm the drug gangs who are going to kill your family, surely the Mafia would, or the Triads or perhaps the decommissioned IRA would have done it my place?
Heh let's just let the market regulate itself, though in this example you and your family might find the end result is the same.
 

Thac0man

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Do you deny that drug dealers would have knife fights if they had no guns, though the death toll would be less and the risk to your family reduced?

Do you think that they are just selling weapons to sell weapons? They weapons are aid in exchange for favourable relations should a particualr group gain power, and even if they don't gain power they create enough region destabilisation for the supplier to exploit.

So if I didn't arm the drug gangs who are going to kill your family, surely the Mafia would, or the Triads or perhaps the decommissioned IRA would have done it my place?
Heh let's just let the market regulate itself, though in this example you and your family might find the end result is the same.
Wo-wo-wo... who is the exploiter here? Arms dealers feed a market. In applying the term 'exploit', it applies in a very differant way to arms dealers than it does when applied to some African leaders. For a seller to engage, there must be a buyer. Again we are back to treating Africans like children or ignoring them all together? The regional preferance is for Russian and Chinese gear anyway and has been for a very long time.

If the issue here is arms control, then its pointelss anyway. The consignment of battle tanks and tonnes of arms that was hijacked off Somalia last year, destined for Southern Sudan in prepartation for a war that has not even started yet, proves the region is being fuelled with weapons illicitly.
 

Rocky

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It has always amazed me that what went on in the Congo over the last decade or so (given all the great hoopla that surrounded the end of Zaire and the fall of the Mobutu) has been completely ignored by the outside world. Perhaps as many as six million dead (estimates very, but it is believed that as many as 40,000 or more people are dying every month still, mostly disease and starvation), as many as Jews killed during the holocaust, and even people like the Mbuti pygmies being hunted down like animals and eaten (yes, eaten) by people (called 'the erasers') looking to exterminate them and appropriate the land they live on for minerals.

I have no knowledge of any American or British role in financing or supporting what went on in any way, but the UN has been terrible - it has made statements about human rights but done very little else. Given the sheer scale of what has happened there, it's frankly unbelievable...
To be fair the UN did deploy it's largest peacekeeping force ever, 20,000 troops at it's peak, so it did do something, at least eventually. However it's performance could have been a lot lot better and that is still the case today.
 

toughbutfair

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But surely politics is about changing the world? Do you really believe war, murder, exploitation and brutal inequality are NECESSARY parts of human social existence? If you do then fair enough. I disagree - and no amount of debate is going to settle that argument.
Unfortunately, I do.

The "upside" is that many advances in civilisation have come from it. In 1903 (ish) mankind just learned to fly a few dozen feet. Two world wars and a cold war in one lifetime and we were walking on the moon. Maybe that is the evolutionary benefit.
 

toughbutfair

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Do you deny that drug dealers would have knife fights if they had no guns, though the death toll would be less and the risk to your family reduced?

Do you think that they are just selling weapons to sell weapons? They weapons are aid in exchange for favourable relations should a particualr group gain power, and even if they don't gain power they create enough region destabilisation for the supplier to exploit.

So if I didn't arm the drug gangs who are going to kill your family, surely the Mafia would, or the Triads or perhaps the decommissioned IRA would have done it my place?
Heh let's just let the market regulate itself, though in this example you and your family might find the end result is the same.
The demand for drugs is there because people want them. Not many innocent people get murdered in drug wars in Ireland. Anyway, guns exist so will be used.
 

Breadan O'Connor

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The Great Lakes region of Africa. Map created before 1997, when Zaire became the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Vote up this image!
Law Professor Peter Erlinder, Lead Defense Counsel for the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda, says without hesitation that the UK and the US have financed Central African wars in which eight million Africans have died.
As a law professor, and Lead Defense Counsel for the International Criminal Tribunal on Rwanda, Professor Erlinder is very careful to be sure he has evidence at hand to prove any statement he stands by and he says the evidence for his claim is all here, in his Rwanda Documents Project,
He knows he's on the Rwanda Hit List that journalist and human rights investigator Keith Harmon Snow reported last week, but said that he's expendable because the documents are all there.
He also said that if there had been any international reporters at the ICTR in 2009 when the court ruled that there was no conspiracy to commit genocide in Rwanda, in 1994, the received history of the genocide and Rwandan President Paul Kagame's ruling Rwandan Patriotic Front's justification would have crumbled.
Digital Journal told Professor Erlinder that Kagame had compared the Rwanda Genocide to 09/11 when talking to Christiane Amanpour on CNN last week, and he said, "That would be ironic indeed, wouldn't it? If 9/11 really were a false flag," meaning a false history to rally around, like the received history of the Rwanda Genocide.
But, he didn't want to comment on 09/11 beyond that, without proof in hand. He's a lawyer.

Another video in which Keith Harmon Snow discusses Congo.

Africans in DRC Congo plantations work in slave type conditions like in the time of Roger Casement.

Plantation owners funded both sides in the war and supplied the weapons which drove the wars. (Just like that film The Lord of War)

Controversially he alleges a Russo-Israeli-American mafia has driven the wars in DRC Congo in order to control the vast resources of that country.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPKcgo4Es8E"]YouTube- A look at the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) (4)[/ame]
 

arcadeparade

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I have no knowledge of any American or British role in financing or supporting what went on in any way, but the UN has been terrible - it has made statements about human rights but done very little else. Given the sheer scale of what has happened there, it's frankly unbelievable...
As far as I know the US supports the Rwandan army which is in the eastern congo and who are responsible for a part of the chaos.

There are lots of US, Euro and chinese, probably others too, multinationals benefiting from the natural resources of the congo.

Its really sad, millions dead all so westerners can have cheap electronics, and the companies profiting of off this could end it all by using slightly more expensive alternatives, but this would cut into their profits and we cant have that...
 

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