Electoral College Watch

NYCKY

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Like she gives a toss. The thing about her is that she ran a vanity spoiler campaign. The Libertarians are a different breed, a legitimate third way of ideology and party optioning. All the Greens have done is play the spoiler to Gore and HRC, hard lefties that just love sticking it to the Dems for not being 'pure enough' to suit their egos and fanaticism.
Green Party candidate Jill Stein got more votes than Trump’s victory margin in 3 key states
That's another reason IMO why Stein is doing this besides more vanity theatre and fundraising. She doesn't want to get tagged as the 'morning regrets' and spoiler like Nader did (she will, and that's her vanity again). Fourth, she's prone to conspiracy theories anyway so this one is perfect for her.
Agreed, one of the reasons that Sanders never went as hard as he could have at Hillary (eg the pass on the emails) was that ultimately he always knew that she was likely to be the nominee and he didn't wan't to damage her. Sanders real goal was to push his agenda and he was successful in that regard, minimum wage hikes, college tuition relief, bad trade deals, etc that became staples of the Hillary campaign.


Stein is batsh1t insane but even deep down, she must realize that she has much blame to share in the Hillary defeat.
 


NYCKY

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Which makes it certifiable...in another way, yet again. I think the whole election system needs to be scrapped from House to POTUS to reflect fairer and more contemporary realities of the US, but so long as the archaic, imbalanced and nutty system continues....

First, you should have to be a POTUS candidate that crossed a minimum competitive threshold to have standing to even request a recount. Stein with 1% running a vanity spoiler campaign? FFS...FO already with herself.

Second, there should be sanctions for filing challenges without actual probable cause that a different result might result. The margins in WI, MI, and PA don't indicate a likelihood of a different result with a recount. Florida POTUS race 2000? Okay. Minnesota Senate race 2006? Okay. Not here though. They were small but significant enough tallies to keep them outside automatic recounts.

Someone like her simply shouldn't be permitted to tilt at windmills for show and/or make bare allegations and cite crackpot.com claims and be entertained. As you noted, it costs too much time and dime to entertain frivolity and mischief. Serious cases only...
A total dog and pony show. As has been repeatedly pointed out there were other much closer states like New Hampshire and Maine, where the results aren't being challenged at all, because Hillary won those states.

There really do need to clarify a "legal standing" concept here. Sure Stein was a candidate but it's not like a recount in these states, even if she was found to have won all three states could make a material impact on her chances of election.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Agreed, one of the reasons that Sanders never went as hard as he could have at Hillary (eg the pass on the emails) was that ultimately he always knew that she was likely to be the nominee and he didn't wan't to damage her. Sanders real goal was to push his agenda and he was successful in that regard, minimum wage hikes, college tuition relief, bad trade deals, etc that became staples of the Hillary campaign.


Stein is batsh1t insane but even deep down, she must realize that she has much blame to share in the Hillary defeat.
Agreed. Sanders gets some stick for painting HRC where it was useful for Trump but I don't find that fair. He was entitled to run in the Dem primary, and also it cuts both ways because Trump's GOP primary opponents did likewise to him.

In the end, Sanders backed HRC full measure. He also prevailed as you said to move HRC and the Dem party more over to his POVs on key issues. Some Sanders voters insisted on writing him in for POTUS or going third party or leaving it blank or staying home against his direct appeals not to do so, but that's on those voters if they wind up regretting Trump's win by their move. Sanders specifically told his base not to do that endless times.

Stein...well, you put it spot on. She wasn't trying to change anything and win for her issues constructively. She is just another vain 'take my ball home' and 'I'll pull your lefty house down unless you do everything I say' crank. If they don't get 110% of their agenda including the wingnuttery of it, then they prefer that Dubya and Trump win, and so they have helped do so very effectively.

Of course, they really can't believe what they say deep down by doing so that harms all the causes they claim to believe, so it's mostly an extremists' malicious vanity thing for them.
 
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O'Sullivan Bere

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A total dog and pony show. As has been repeatedly pointed out there were other much closer states like New Hampshire and Maine, where the results aren't being challenged at all, because Hillary won those states.

There really do need to clarify a "legal standing" concept here. Sure Stein was a candidate but it's not like a recount in these states, even if she was found to have won all three states could make a material impact on her chances of election.
Yes on NH. ME? Trump won ME-2 and got his electoral college vote there. HRC won the state by over 20,000 votes, which is more than WI and MI. Still, it wasn't a huge margin as you noted but it's not a very populated state. Neither is NH. The key here would be having a chance in PA, and that's a bridge too far IMO when it's near 50,000 votes to clear. Even for a populated state like PA, that's a big number of errors...too many to be realistic.

Indeed we need legal standing, and that should be having a plausible chance of winning the election by the person calling for the recount. This case is perfect for showing why. Hell, Mickey Mouse would have standing if he was real by allowing Stein to do this.
 

Dame_Enda

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If if that were so, and then let's say HRC actually won MI. Hell, let's say HRC also won WI.

PA is still the trick. In PA, the difference is 47,755 votes. It would still be Trump by 280-257 on the EC tally. That's why I still ask...where's the distinctions with a difference?
As an individual micro-outpost of Trumpism in Ireland I agree. But while trickier to force a recount in PA as the margin is a bit higher than that to trigger an automatic one, and as Stein has dropped her Pennsylvania state court case (despite its Supreme Court having a Dem majority) in favour of a Federal case, its notable that some countries have delayed certification in case theres a recount. One of the Project Veritas videos had a Dem boasting at having rigged elections in Pennsylvania for 20-30 years, so I am very suspicious that some more votes will be "found" for example in Philadelphia.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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This thread is to follow developments that might stop Trump being elected after all. Assuming Trump's win's in the Rust Belt are upheld in time for the "safe harbour" deadline (Dec 13), he will have on paper 306 electors to her 232. 36 GOP defectors would then be needed to swing the election to the House of Representatives, which would have to choose from the top 3 in the Electoral Vote.

Texas GOP elector Chris Suprun has announced he won't vote for Trump. Another one Art Sisneros has resigned after saying the same and he is due to be replaced. Suprun had previous been reported as saying he wouldnt support Trump, then went on Fox to deny it, and is now against again ...
What these people are proposing, and they seem to be serious - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-can-use-the-electoral-college-to-stop-trump-but-not-how-you-think/2016/12/05/c69bb24e-ba86-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.2419df8d7ab3 - is, effectively, a coup d'etat.

You have to wonder what they're worried about.

Do they see Trump as a threat to Pork Barrel Politics?

Or are there even dirtier secrets that he, with his commercial background, might stumble on and recognise?.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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The resistance to Trump is unbelievable.

There must be major interests behind it.

Pork Barrel Politics is huge, and the threat that the Republicans could amend the US Constitution so as to impose financial controls on the President and the Federal government must be causing a panic in places. Republican success opens door to amending US Constitution | Commentary & Blogs | elkodaily.com

You have to look at the US Military–Industrial–Media complex. There must be some scared people there - https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html?utm_term=.58eef4550c06 .



[video=youtube;DqRxNnjUEtM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqRxNnjUEtM[/video]
 
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Dame_Enda

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This website claims 15 GOP electors plan to defect. However (see below) some are denying this. Its a sign though the liberals are putting them under pressure to do so. The second video below has a GOP elector complaining about it.

The following states ban "faithless electors" (usually around a $1000 fine which is nothing to these people).

Alabama, Nebraska, Alaska, Nevada, California, New Mexico, Colorado, North Carolina, Connecticut, Oklahoma, Delaware, Ohio, District of Columbia, Oregon, Florida, South Carolina, Hawaii, Tennessee, Maine, Utah, Massachusetts, Vermont, Minnesota, Virginia, Michigan, Washington, Mississippi, Wisconsin, Montana, Wyoming.

[video=youtube;_vQiW9Yu0eU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vQiW9Yu0eU[/video]

However one of those mentioned in the article as a possibility, Jonathan Barnett in Alabama, has said he's voting Trump.

[video=youtube;gqVt6NaJEWI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqVt6NaJEWI[/video]

Also elector Bruce Ash in Arizona denies hes voting against Trump but says Arizona electors are being bombarded with emails including ones calling him anti-semitic despite being Jewish himself.
 
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RasherHash

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This website claims 15 GOP electors plan to defect. However (see below) some are denying this. Its a sign though the liberals are putting them under pressure to do so. The second video below has a GOP elector complaining about it.

The following states ban "faithless electors" (usually around a $1000 fine which is nothing to these people).

Alabama, Nebraska, Alaska, Nevada, California, New Mexico, Colorado, North Carolina, Connecticut, Oklahoma, Delaware, Ohio, District of Columbia, Oregon, Florida, South Carolina, Hawaii, Tennessee, Maine, Utah, Massachusetts, Vermont, Minnesota, Virginia, Michigan, Washington, Mississippi, Wisconsin, Montana, Wyoming.

[video=youtube;_vQiW9Yu0eU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vQiW9Yu0eU[/video]

However one of those mentioned in the article as a possibility, Jonathan Barnett in Alabama, has said he's voting Trump.

[video=youtube;gqVt6NaJEWI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqVt6NaJEWI[/video]

Also elector Bruce Ash in Arizona denies hes voting against Trump but says Arizona electors are being bombarded with emails including ones calling him anti-semitic despite being Jewish himself.
And these are the shower the so-called free world relies on?

What a cess pit.
 

Gin Soaked

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OK but right now the Michigan AG has petitioned the court to stop the recount and the Pennsylvania one has been blocked (that decision is also being challenged).

Stein would need all three states to have their electors blocked from attending the meeting next week. Any combination of two states would not be enough to stop him getting an electoral college majority. That assumes that they wouldn't be allowed to vote while undergoing a recount.

Did Stein cost hillary any states?
 

mangaire2

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Electoral College Watch

Popular Vote Watch

just checked & Clinton is two & a half million votes ahead of Trump,
& c. 2% ahead of Trump in the Popular Vote.

this Electoral College System is nonsense.
whatever validity it once had, has long disappeared.

& BTW - i'm not a fan of Clinton, at all, at all.
 

Betson

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Electoral College Watch

Popular Vote Watch

just checked & Clinton is two & a half million votes ahead of Trump,
& c. 2% ahead of Trump in the Popular Vote.

this Electoral College System is nonsense.
whatever validity it once had, has long disappeared.

& BTW - i'm not a fan of Clinton, at all, at all.
But before the election it was the democrats who were lauding the benefits of the EV system , this was when the polls showed that Trump had a chance to win the Popular vote but the odds on him winning the EV were very slim.

The EV system was brought in to equal things among the states and not have states with huge urban populations dominate the political landscape , and I think it has worked well , it has made people focus a lot more on the fly over rust bucket states which would not get a look in if it was down to popular vote.

These are the states that are struggling most and now everyone knows they cannot be ignored. None more so now that Clinton to her cost.

Big time Hilary supporter and CNN commentator has a 1 hour programme tonight on CNN where he visits these states to talk to people who would normally be democrat leaning but voted for Trump , he wants to find out why they would do this.

He done a promo on it last night on CNN and they showed a clip where they talked to working class white family who had voted Obama the last two times , the father said they were uncomfortable voting for Trump and were looking for reasons to vote for Clinton.

But he said she never once reached out to people like them during the whole campaign , he said that even a couple of speech's or an ad campaign directed at working families like him might have swung it , but she showed no empathy to the situation they were in while showing a lot to other groups. And Trump never stopped talking about the working class in these states which are predominantly white.

So they decided to give him the vote , they don't know if he will do anything for them but at least he recognised them.
 

NYCKY

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Did Stein cost hillary any states?
Hillary cost Hillary states. Remember Sanders beat Clinton in the primaries in both Michigan and Wisconsin. Hillary never set foot in Wisconsin after the primary.

Hillary went back to Michigan in the dying days of the campaign, which was a sure sign that she was in trouble there. It was too little too late.

In Michigan roughly 90 thousand ballots had no candidate selected for President, and Trump won here by less than 11 thousand votes.
 
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Old Mr Grouser

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But before the election it was the democrats who were lauding the benefits of the EV system , this was when the polls showed that Trump had a chance to win the Popular vote but the odds on him winning the EV were very slim.

The EV system was brought in to equal things among the states and not have states with huge urban populations dominate the political landscape , and I think it has worked well , it has made people focus a lot more on the fly over rust bucket states which would not get a look in if it was down to popular vote.

These are the states that are struggling most and now everyone knows they cannot be ignored. None more so now that Clinton to her cost ...
You're right. Area-wise the USA is the same size as Europe and there are massive differences in Climate, Geography, Culture, Wealth, Economic Infrastructure ...

Here's a map showing the Presidential election result, state by state. The states coloured blue voted for Clinton, the red ones opted for Trump -


 

Betson

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You're right. Area-wise the USA is the same size as Europe and there are massive differences in Climate, Geography, Culture, Wealth, Economic Infrastructure ...

Here's a map showing the Presidential election result, state by state. The states coloured blue voted for Clinton, the red ones opted for Trump -


That was not the final result.
 

Dame_Enda

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You're right. Area-wise the USA is the same size as Europe and there are massive differences in Climate, Geography, Culture, Wealth, Economic Infrastructure ...

Here's a map showing the Presidential election result, state by state. The states coloured blue voted for Clinton, the red ones opted for Trump -


Nope this is the result.

 

Fractional Reserve

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How much did Hillary beat Trump by in California ? If you took that vote out how popular would she be then,she beat Trump by 3milion very popular in that state , after that not too popular in other states

Electoral College Watch

Popular Vote Watch

just checked & Clinton is two & a half million votes ahead of Trump,
& c. 2% ahead of Trump in the Popular Vote.

this Electoral College System is nonsense.
whatever validity it once had, has long disappeared.

& BTW - i'm not a fan of Clinton, at all, at all.
 


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