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Elite is preparing to sell country down the river


Aindriu

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Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
McWilliams strikes again!

The last time I checked there was a harp on the front of my passport, not a picture of Michael Fingleton
The other day I met a German radio presenter from ARD, the German public radio station. I've known her for quite a while -- since a brief spell working on the German economy in the 1990s for an investment bank. She, like many other foreign correspondents, has been sent to Ireland to see what is going on here.
After a while, I wondered why she hadn't asked me anything about the Government, or the prospect of an election or what new political constellation might emerge here. She joked and in an exaggerated German accent laughed: "David, it doesn't matter who your next prime minister is, he will have no power -- we own you now, and he will do what we tell him."
The problem is that the joke is on us. She touched on the nub of the issue: the Irish elite is prepared to sell the sovereignty of this country to protect the likes of Roman Abramovich and other vulture investors who bought up third-rate Irish banking debt at a discount and are hoping to get paid in full.
Full article here.

Sadly, the German woman is right.
 


karldaly

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Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
465
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"Elite is preparing to sell country down the river"
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What do you mean PREPARING.
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A view from England

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Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
2,077
McWilliams strikes again!



Full article here.

Sadly, the German woman is right.
Your sovereignty ended the day you joined the Euro. Since then your country has rode the Euro rollercoaster with the results we see today. In successive general elections, the People voted Fianna Fail in to Government again and again, believing that Ireland was undertaking an economic miracle that was the result of an FF Government when instead it was on a spending splurge driven by a debt binge from too low interest rates as a result of Euro membership. I'm truly sorry that you joined the Eurozone and ended up as you are.:-(
 

ICallely

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
187
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"Elite is preparing to sell country down the river"
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What do you mean PREPARING?.
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Precisely! The dead is done, we are ALL tenants of absentee land lords now.

Thank you to Fianna Fail, and to all the County Councillors of all parties that voted for unlimited rezonings, at the behest of the developer/banker elite.

Is there a difference between economic treason and and Treason?
 

GDPR

1
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Jul 5, 2008
Messages
222,748
McWilliams strikes again!
Indeed he does.


"Here's the quotation from the EU Commission regarding bust Danish banks: "Moreover, burden sharing is ensured by excluding shareholders and subordinated debt holders of the failed bank from any benefit from the aid."

There you have it in black and white. This is what the EU has advised Denmark to do. It clearly states that they won't give any state money to the troubled bank until the subordinated debt holders are burnt."



In Anglo the shareholders have been wiped out and the sub debt holders will end up with 40% or less.

Is it possible McWilliams doesn't know this or does not knowing make for better copy?
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
3,584
Its ok all is not lost, if your granny or grandad was born under the Irish Freestate you may be entitled to a UK passport!

Yes folks we have hope, we can throw away our Irish citizenship and all become British citizens, economic freedom is within our grasp, lets not follow those stupid paddies anymore, Tally ho boys!
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,908
At least the Vikings and the British gavrs us the dignity of an actual invasion and gave us an opportunity to defend our freedoms.

But this was incremental stealth over the best part of 40 years. Worse still most people welcomed it and were seduced by it. Still are.
 

the_rebubblican

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Mar 24, 2010
Messages
344
I'm sure that the subtext to ECB support for our zombie banks and zombie bond sales was a degree of compliance on the Irish state's behalf that would have been unthinkable 2 years ago. Economic sovereignty is therefore already diluted. We're part of a terrible experiment as far as the Germans are concerned.

Interestingly George Soros has identified a new front line in the batlle with the financial crisis hangover which would seriously threaten cohesion in the Eurozone where Germany alone is the winner in any recovery...

Our political "elite" are entering the last chance saloon, they'd better get it together because Mixer Man's stunt at the Dáil gates will only be the start. FF are pushing trhe envelope of tolerance with this budget if they don't go to the people...
 

keepitreal

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Jan 9, 2008
Messages
144
I'm sure that the subtext to ECB support for our zombie banks and zombie bond sales was a degree of compliance on the Irish state's behalf that would have been unthinkable 2 years ago. Economic sovereignty is therefore already diluted. We're part of a terrible experiment as far as the Germans are concerned.

Interestingly George Soros has identified a new front line in the batlle with the financial crisis hangover which would seriously threaten cohesion in the Eurozone where Germany alone is the winner in any recovery...

Our political "elite" are entering the last chance saloon, they'd better get it together because Mixer Man's stunt at the Dáil gates will only be the start. FF are pushing trhe envelope of tolerance with this budget if they don't go to the people...

Imo, the 'people' have no say anymore, democracy is all a stage front to make you 'think' you have a say. Lisbon 2 showed that it's long subverted by vested interests. The current 'administration' in the dail doesn't give 2 fecks what you, I or anyone in this country thinks - we all know this now, albiet with some cognitive dissonance, that's whats causing the angry feeling in our bellies when we talk or think about the current political and economic situation in Ireland today. I for one don't want this administration anywhere near that last chance saloon. The pot is beginning to boil and over it will go - for sure.
 

SilverLining

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Jun 7, 2009
Messages
1,373
Vote Lisbon for Jobs
Yes jobs for the elites only. We were conned, bullied, browbeat, abused, ridiculed, lied to and persecuted by them during both referendum campaigns. They got their way giving over total control the big girls/boys of the EU.
 

markeys

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Feb 11, 2008
Messages
273
When FF/Greens decided to make the taxpayers pay for the mistakes of their friends (aka the bank guarantee) we were already sold down the river. There is no 'preparing.' The deed is already done.
 

roc_

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Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,268
It strikes me that we're not ready for sovereignty. At least, going on the evidence of what has transpired in this country since 1922.

Another thing is that the Europeans seem to me to be much more civilised than we seem to be capable of. We badly need a bit of that in this country.

Granted, there is a big problem presently with the symbiotic relationships that have developed between big business and governments generally, in the west. We see how all of the rules and norms of our workplaces, society, and state in general is effectively wielded by a small number of people who control investable wealth.

But if we are to fight this tendency adequately, who would you put your faith in? - FF/FG/SF/Labour/Greens?!!! Give me a break.

Imo, we in Ireland need to begin by working on ourselves - our personal capacity for civilised debate; to listen properly to other views; to develop an adequate sense of purpose with regard to the greater public good, etc. For a start we need to get rid of the kind of dumb commercial, partisan, institutionalised narratives promoted by RTE and our national newspapers... We need to make our workplaces more dignified; we need to grind the gombeen man into the dirt so that he can never rise again; we need to nurture our urban and rural environments to better reflect the more worthy facets of our national character...

Then, it might make sense to talk of sovereignty. Until such time, I cannot help but think rule by the EU is preferable over, as Oscar Wilde put it, 'The bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people...'
 

goosebump

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May 23, 2008
Messages
4,953
It strikes me that we're not ready for sovereignty. At least, going on the evidence of what has transpired in this country since 1922.

Another thing is that the Europeans seem to me to be much more civilised than we seem to be capable of. We badly need a bit of that in this country.

Granted, there is a big problem presently with the symbiotic relationships that have developed between big business and governments generally, in the west. We see how all of the rules and norms of our workplaces, society, and state in general is effectively wielded by a small number of people who control investable wealth.

But if we are to fight this tendency adequately, who would you put your faith in? - FF/FG/SF/Labour/Greens?!!! Give me a break.

Imo, we in Ireland need to begin by working on ourselves - our personal capacity for civilised debate; to listen properly to other views; to develop an adequate sense of purpose with regard to the greater public good, etc. For a start we need to get rid of the kind of dumb commercial, partisan, institutionalised narratives promoted by RTE and our national newspapers... We need to make our workplaces more dignified; we need to grind the gombeen man into the dirt so that he can never rise again; we need to nurture our urban and rural environments to better reflect the more worthy facets of our national character...

Then, it might make sense to talk of sovereignty. Until such time, I cannot help but think rule by the EU is preferable over, as Oscar Wilde put it, 'The bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people...'
Good post.

Re. the OP, its frightening the degree to which people buy into McWilliam's rhetoric. As has been pointed out, there is no difference in the treatment of sub-debt holders in Denmark and here.

Our appetite for demagogy appears to be insatiable.
 

SilverLining

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1,373
Who really knew that when we saw this




It actually meant this



Well some of us were saying these things and were ignored. Unfortunately the likes of Libertas with its right wing pro capitalist agenda lost the referendum for us all by providing a target for the elites to aim at. They were used as a convenient boogey man to scare the electorate into submission.

The "Yes to jobs" group are a suspicious looking bunch. Looks like a scene from Fr Ted's Lovely Girl Competition. All the two lads need are dog collars.
 

johntrenchard

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Nov 7, 2009
Messages
991
The funny thing is those "Yes to Jobs" arguments could have equally been valid with regards to the British Empire circa 1922.


Bear in mind that we were part of a trading bloc that covered one third of the entire planet back then! To go against something so huge and argue for independence was incredibly brave. We've fallen a long long way since then.
 

cozzy121

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May 26, 2009
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5,051
She neatly summed up our National cowardice

My German friend was amazed when she saw Abramovich's caper and she observed that the Irish parliament kept genuflecting to some crowd called bondholders. She asked me one of the most insightful questions I have heard throughout this long saga: "Do you Irish need to be loved so much that you will stand up for nothing?"
Then again, you wouldn't follow our so-called leaders to the jacks never-mind into a war.
 
Last edited:

roc_

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Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,268
It strikes me that we're not ready for sovereignty. At least, going on the evidence of what has transpired in this country since 1922.

Another thing is that the Europeans seem to me to be much more civilised than we seem to be capable of. We badly need a bit of that in this country.

Granted, there is a big problem presently with the symbiotic relationships that have developed between big business and governments generally, in the west. We see how all of the rules and norms of our workplaces, society, and state in general is effectively wielded by a small number of people who control investable wealth.

But if we are to fight this tendency adequately, who would you put your faith in? - FF/FG/SF/Labour/Greens?!!! Give me a break.

Imo, we in Ireland need to begin by working on ourselves - our personal capacity for civilised debate; to listen properly to other views; to develop an adequate sense of purpose with regard to the greater public good, etc. For a start we need to get rid of the kind of dumb commercial, partisan, institutionalised narratives promoted by RTE and our national newspapers... We need to make our workplaces more dignified; we need to grind the gombeen man into the dirt so that he can never rise again; we need to nurture our urban and rural environments to better reflect the more worthy facets of our national character...

Then, it might make sense to talk of sovereignty. Until such time, I cannot help but think rule by the EU is preferable over, as Oscar Wilde put it, 'The bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people...'
I'd also add that I harbour a suspicion that the likes of Declan Ganley (and the kind of business interests and mindsets that lurk in his background) realise that the biggest threat to the currently prevailing symbiosis between big business and government, lies in the European traditions of government, democracy and cultural mores.

I mean, look towards Germany and France - has it been in their cultural tradition to make it normal for their citizens to work 60 hour weeks, at meaningless work, with little holidays, and to commercialise every little aspect of their cultural and social life, etc?

I would say that the European tradition panders far less to large business interests than the likes of Ireland, US, UK, Singapore, what have you. I'd be very wary of the kinds of agendas promoted by Ganley and his like. And I think McWilliams is missing this part of the picture even though he has his eye well on much of the rest of the picture.
 
G

Gimpanzee

Good post.

Re. the OP, its frightening the degree to which people buy into McWilliam's rhetoric. As has been pointed out, there is no difference in the treatment of sub-debt holders in Denmark and here.

Our appetite for demagogy appears to be insatiable.
Yep, can't understand for the life of me why some people cling to McWilliams' every word. It show's how little we're prepared to learn.
 

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