End of 2 tier health service?

ruman

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FF calling for abolition of 2 tier health service.


SF also oppose 2 tier system so that just leaves FG.

First step hopefully will be the immediate abandonment of private consulting rooms in our new hospital. No body has an issue with private business however i dont see any other business having their premises subsidised by the taxpayer.

I wouldnt have much faith in the lifers in the department of health implementing this personally. We'll need a complete clear out of senior management once the current crisis is over.
 


omgsquared

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No chance too many vested interests and no political leadership. How will the consultants buy their houses around lough Derg.. Mayo , Ger kick backs from the drug companies etc etc ....Be sensible
 

MsDaisyC

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As soon as this is over (if not before) FG will be back to leaving hundreds on trollies and hundreds of thousands on waiting lists and not caring about the public health system because they won't need access to it anymore.
 

ruman

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As soon as this is over (if not before) FG will be back to leaving hundreds on trollies and hundreds of thousands on waiting lists and not caring about the public health system because they won't need access to it anymore.
I dunno. The last election scared the bejasus out of FFG who assumed only a certain class of people would vote SF.

What transpired was they got huge support among the young many of whom are well educated. If they dont address health and housing they will face an even bigger kicking from the electorate.

Irish people have seen proper health services in other EU countries and are less tolerant than the parents.
 

Dame_Enda

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The longer this arrangement lasts the harder it will be to unpick,.
 

MsDaisyC

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I dunno. The last election scared the bejasus out of FFG who assumed only a certain class of people would vote SF.

What transpired was they got huge support among the young many of whom are well educated. If they dont address health and housing they will face an even bigger kicking from the electorate.

Irish people have seen proper health services in other EU countries and are less tolerant than the parents.
Their excuse will be that the Coronavirus took all the money they would have spent on mental health and the colossal waiting lists. All those extra nurses have to be paid too. Blame the nurses.
 

Patslatt1

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FF calling for abolition of 2 tier health service.


SF also oppose 2 tier system so that just leaves FG.

First step hopefully will be the immediate abandonment of private consulting rooms in our new hospital. No body has an issue with private business however i dont see any other business having their premises subsidised by the taxpayer.

I wouldnt have much faith in the lifers in the department of health implementing this personally. We'll need a complete clear out of senior management once the current crisis is over.
CRISIS SHORTAGE OF HOSPITAL CONSULTANTS?
Even the UK's socialist NHS allows private consultants to practice in public hospitals,recognising the need to hold on to them. The best medical systems in the EU, in France, Netherlands and Germany, rely mainly on private hospitals to deliver state funded or heavily regulated health care.
FF's proposal is a totally impractical,politically motivated stunt that would cause a potential crisis shortage of hospital consultants.
At present,there are serious shortages of hospital consultant specialists. Yet the government persists with absurd equal pay for all salary only consultants that fails to attract a sufficient supply of the scarcest consultants such as opthopedics and opthalmologists (Cataract patients in danger of blindness had to be bussed from Cork to Belfast for relatively simple surgery).
Many Irish consultants who train abroad and pay far lower income taxes than here would be very reluctant to return without the option for private practice in public hospitals. Many who qualify here would move abroad for far higher pay in the USA and elsewhere.
The ban on private practice would lead to unnecessary duplication of expensive scarce services as private hospitals expanded to take in consultants quitting public hospitals. This could add to serious shortages of consultants in public hospitals.
To achieve FF's plan would likely include speeding up of training programmes for consultants which take years longer than abroad, in Germany for instance.
Notwithstanding the foregoing,, it is shameful that the two tier system discriminates against low income people who can't afford quality private heath care. But the solution looks politically impossible. Depriving private patients access to public hospitals would cost any political party a high proportion of its voting support. Increasing the capacity of hospitals to make waiting lists reasonable would likely increase health care spending from the present 12% of the economy to maybe a totally unacceptable 15% plus that would deprive other government services. Only a radical overhaul of inefficient trade union and professional work practices and a freeze on excessive pay and pensions would prevent that. No political party would attempt it.
 

Dame_Enda

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I think the best thing we can expect right now is a renewal of the arrangement whereby the private hospitals help out the public ones with beds and ventilators.

Longterm we should look at merging PRSI with health insurance. The problem is it would need to be fair to those who can't work due to disability, or who are about to find themselves unemployed (some after only leaving school) due to the impending recession.
 

Patslatt1

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I think the best thing we can expect right now is a renewal of the arrangement whereby the private hospitals help out the public ones with beds and ventilators.

Longterm we should look at merging PRSI with health insurance. The problem is it would need to be fair to those who can't work due to disability, or who are about to find themselves unemployed (some after only leaving school) due to the impending recession.
Merging PRSI won't cure Brian Cowen's Angola, his description of a health service riddled with special interests,bureaucracy and workers co-ops.
 

ruman

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Merging PRSI won't cure Brian Cowen's Angola, his description of a health service riddled with special interests,bureaucracy and workers co-ops.
I've long been of the view that a pan european health service is our best bet. SFFG all have the same health plan "implement slaintecare" which wont address anything.

Germany seems to have dealt very well with the current crisis even taking treating french victims. Rather than squnader €19 billion on the dysfunctional and unreformable HSE we should look at paying the Germans to run our health service.
 

Clanrickard

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Merging PRSI won't cure Brian Cowen's Angola, his description of a health service riddled with special interests,bureaucracy and workers co-ops.
Trade Unions are the biggest obstacle to reform.
 

ruman

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I feel that other bodies such as consultant , doctors, medical councils, legal fraternity and the various lobbying groups from the Pharma companies and insurance companies are equally as big an obstacle.
Would agree with that, our " health service" is simply an ATM for too many.
Anyone who has visited healthcare services in other parts of western europe, compared them to ours and noted our spending is above the OECD average wont be surprised.

A fair number of our hospitals should have been bulldozed to the ground years ago. In Dublin Tallaght and Vincents are acceptable while Crumlin, Temple St , Holles St and the Rotunda are absolute sh*tholes.

The staff do their best but as with the current situation are being failed badly by management.
 

ruman

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The Clan is back banging his neo-liberal drum
Union leaders are exceptionally well paid here. Conditions for health care staff however are pretty appalling. The leaders of the Health Sector Unions are incompetent as HSE management.

Does stating that make be a " neo liberal"?
 

Clanrickard

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making waves

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Union leaders are exceptionally well paid here. Conditions for health care staff however are pretty appalling. The leaders of the Health Sector Unions are incompetent as HSE management.
And please indicate where I have once defended the 'exceptionally well-paid' union officials?

If these 'well-paid' union officials had their way then the HSE bureaucracy would be riding bareback over the entire HSE workforce.
 

ruman

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And please indicate where I have once defended the 'exceptionally well-paid' union officials?

If these 'well-paid' union officials had their way then the HSE bureaucracy would be riding bareback over the entire HSE workforce.
I didnt and hope you dont. I'd imagine we are largely in agreement based on this post.
 

omgsquared

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Trade Union representatives are not like those of old, Many have never worked at anything except been TU officials .
But many doctors and consultants have also changed , they are money making machines. Similar with politicians we have professional politicians who never worked in anything else or inherited their seats from their daddy .. or mammy .
Leadership is required , I know it sounds almost fascists but that is what is needed,
The leadership at the moment si about spending money with no costing it seems. When asked the cost of the deal with the Pvt Hospitals or the cost of hiring the hotel in west Dublin.. They could not give an answer.
 


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