• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

End to Irish low corporate tax rate




A view from England

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
2,077

dalywise

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
811
Whatever about the Corpo tax rate, this is the final stake in the heart of the FF/PD low tax policy. (Of course it was never low tax really, it was just low taxes for the rich but plenty of indirect taxes on everybody else to make up for the rich not paying their share.)

I wonder will FF and the PD remnants care to comment on the final burial of their main policy plank and admit the total failure that it proved to be. Will Cowen come out and admit that he was wrong when he told Pat Rabbite "you lost the tax argument a long time ago". An arrogant incompetent.

Will Harney admit now that her Boston has destroyed us, Berlin must rescue us.

The fact that Cowen and Harney are still running the show after such abject failure is an outrage.
 

zeleneye

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
531
Whatever about the Corpo tax rate, this is the final stake in the heart of the FF/PD low tax policy.
You say FF/PD but the whole mainstream political establishment supported this low corporate tax policy. Why? Why did/do Labour support the same cowboy economics as FF/FG/PDs? Why is nobody challenging the taboo in Ireland?
 

libertarian-right

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,492
Corporation tax will be the bargaining chip should the EU/IMF step in. Then expect FDI to suffer greatly. MNC's will start to wonder why are they staying here.
 

consultant

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
1,097
You say FF/PD but the whole mainstream political establishment supported this low corporate tax policy. Why? Why did/do Labour support the same cowboy economics as FF/FG/PDs? Why is nobody challenging the taboo in Ireland?

Be that as it may. We are where we are. We can turn the corners. But the fact remains. The EU CAN'T touch our corporate tax rate. THAT was negotiated and WRITTEN IN to the Lisbon 2 agreement. Saying otherwise is just scaremongering on the 'No' side.

Perhaps the EU Commissioner is a propagandist for the 'No' campainers.

Cowen and Co have sworn that our tax system is sovereign and cannot be changed by the EU. Michael Martin swore the same. Dick Roche. Mary Hannafin. John gormless. Eamon Ryan. Brian Lenihan.

Upright, trustworthy men one an all. And Mary.
 

Pauli

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,181
Whatever about the Corpo tax rate, this is the final stake in the heart of the FF/PD low tax policy. (Of course it was never low tax really, it was just low taxes for the rich but plenty of indirect taxes on everybody else to make up for the rich not paying their share.)

I wonder will FF and the PD remnants care to comment on the final burial of their main policy plank and admit the total failure that it proved to be. Will Cowen come out and admit that he was wrong when he told Pat Rabbite "you lost the tax argument a long time ago". An arrogant incompetent.

Will Harney admit now that her Boston has destroyed us, Berlin must rescue us.

The fact that Cowen and Harney are still running the show after such abject failure is an outrage.
+1. Finally. Three-card trick economics hurled into the trashcan of history. The failure of this BS has to be beaten into those who perpetrated it, with hurleys if necessary. Arrogant, clueless cretins who have destroyed the future of the next two generations.
 

Nermal

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,327
Will Harney admit now that her Boston has destroyed us, Berlin must rescue us.
Berlin is rescuing us because it has functioning financial regulation, not because it has high taxation. The crisis proved that we need the first, but didn't prove we need the second.

There are countries with tax takes similar to ours, but proper financial regulation, that were relatively unaffected, e.g. Switzerland.
 

Pauli

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,181
Berlin is rescuing us because it has functioning financial regulation, not because it has high taxation. The crisis proved that we need the first, but didn't prove we need the second.

There are countries with tax takes similar to ours, but proper financial regulation, that were relatively unaffected, e.g. Switzerland.
Switzerland has very little political corruption whereas in Ireland it is off the bloody scale in comparison.
 

zeleneye

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
531
Then expect FDI to suffer greatly. MNC's will start to wonder why are they staying here.
The corporate tax rate hasn't attracted any real new FDI in a long time. It has merely led firms to open PO Box offices to repatriate their profits to Ireland to avail of our rates.

Real FDI (i.e. the kind that actually resulted in businesses being established and jobs being created) all but dried up a good few years ago, after our economy became so uncompetitive.
 

markjbloggs

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
173
Refresh my ageing memory here - when was the current low corp tax regime introduced? Was is Haughey?
 

Ray Neday

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
14
The most important thing to remember though is that raising the CT rate will not have the benefits that people think. CT only provides a return when companies are in profit and every €1 loss this year and other years is carried forwards until all losses are utilised.

When I was in College, we were taught that there were circa 11 reasons for the emergence of the Celtic Tiger, the two most important being our CT rate and the education of our workforce.

Now consider that if you walk onto the developers floor of any ICT company in Ireland (including Google!), bets are that over 50% of the developers and researchers will be foreign nationals. Multi-national bosses have warned that our education system is simply nowhere near international standards at present.

That leaves us with only one cookie in the cookie jar at present - our CT rate.

The problem for any government is we have to fund the deficit by ourselves which will probably involve an increase in CT, or we dont and we have to go to the European fund and condition number one in appendix one of the loan agreement will be to increase our CT rate!
 

Ray Neday

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
14
Refresh my ageing memory here - when was the current low corp tax regime introduced? Was is Haughey?
The Rainbow Gov. introduced the law which dictated the gradual reduction to 12.5% i believe.
 

FutureTaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
7,991
Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com
Whatever about the Corpo tax rate, this is the final stake in the heart of the FF/PD low tax policy. (Of course it was never low tax really, it was just low taxes for the rich but plenty of indirect taxes on everybody else to make up for the rich not paying their share.)

I wonder will FF and the PD remnants care to comment on the final burial of their main policy plank and admit the total failure that it proved to be. Will Cowen come out and admit that he was wrong when he told Pat Rabbite "you lost the tax argument a long time ago". An arrogant incompetent.

Will Harney admit now that her Boston has destroyed us, Berlin must rescue us.

The fact that Cowen and Harney are still running the show after such abject failure is an outrage.
It's the other way around. Berlin has destroyed us with low interest rates that caused the housing bubble and were totally unsuited to an economy growing at 10% per annum. The "Boston" part of the economy was eroded since 2002 with public-sector splurges like "Benchmarking" and the €20 billion public-sector pay bill which eroded our competitiveness because of the charges that were needed to help pay for it. We have the second highest electricity prices in Europe, compared to one of the lowest when we joined the Euro in 1999. The abolition of the corporate-tax rate at the behest of Brussels would destroy any incentive for multinationals to set up here. There is an element of Stockholm-Syndrome in your argument.

And it's not just us that have suffered because of the Euro. Ask the Spaniards (20% unemployment) and Greeks how wonderful it has turned out to be. Saying Berlin is the saviour is a hunter turned gamekeeper lie. A Boston economic model would have balanced the budget (required by the Massachussetts Constitution) and we wouldn't be €20 billion in deficit. The collapse is almost entirely in indigenous Irish industry - not so much the multinationals. We remain one of the most attractive countries for FDI and we produce 1/3rd of computers sold in the EU. Brussels gave us inflation through low interest rates (we had to reduce interest rates from 10% to 2% in the six month run-in to the start of EMU in 1999) and the housing-crash. Their open-door immigration policies contributed to inflation and the housing-crash by pumping up consumer-demand excessively. The tax-guarantees are now exposed as the pack of lies the anti-Lisbon side said they were.
 
Last edited:

dalywise

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
811
The Corporate Tax rate is one thing. Keep it low if it means a few jobs will be created or saved and if the costs justify the benefits.

I'm thinking more of the low income tax rates that the middle classes sucked up not realising that they were constructing their own moratorium in doing so. Income taxes were low and benefitted multi-millioanaires far more than the middle classes or poor. In fact the opposite is the case. The middle classes and poor paid far more of their income in indirect taxes that were set high to compensate for the low income tax. Classic case of a corrupt regressive tax regime. That is the leagcy of the FF/PD philiosopy.

Maybe there's a case for raising Corporation tax. Maybe it could be raised somewhat before frightening away the multi-nationals. But from talking to a few solictors and accountants over the past month, prepare for a major blow out in corporate tax receipts. I reckon the real reason the bond auctions have been cancelled for the remainder of the year is that the self employed tax returns at the end of October will be a nightmare and show us really up the creek.
 

dalywise

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
811
It's the other way around. Berlin has destroyed us with low interest rates that caused the housing bubble and were totally unsuited to an economy growing at 10% per annum. The "Boston" part of the economy was eroded since 2002 with public-sector splurges like "Benchmarking" and the €20 billion public-sector pay bill which eroded our competitiveness because of the charges that were needed to help pay for it. We have the second highest electricity prices in Europe, compared to one of the lowest when we joined the Euro in 1999. The abolition of the corporate-tax rate at the behest of Brussels would destroy any incentive for multinationals to set up here. There is an element of Stockholm-Syndrome in your argument.

And it's not just us that have suffered because of the Euro. Ask the Spaniards (20% unemployment) and Greeks how wonderful it has turned out to be. Saying Berlin is the saviour is a hunter turned gamekeeper lie. A Boston economic model would have balanced the budget (required by the Massachussetts Constitution) and we wouldn't be €20 billion in deficit. The collapse is almost entirely in indigenous Irish industry - not so much the multinationals. We remain one of the most attractive countries for FDI and we produce 1/3rd of computers sold in the EU. Brussels gave us inflation through low interest rates (we had to reduce interest rates from 10% to 2% in the six month run-in to the start of EMU in 1999) and the housing-crash. Their open-door immigration policies contributed to inflation and the housing-crash by pumping up consumer-demand excessively. The tax-guarantees are now exposed as the pack of lies the anti-Lisbon side said they were.
FF/PDs did not follow the rules of the game. They were supposed to use fiscal controls in the single currency. They did the opposite.

Yes, low interest rates generated huge activity. The Growth and Stability pact required in that scenario that they control spending and ensure competitiveness through wage and fiscal policy. FF/PD policy though was the old Irish policy of "populism". They knew what was needed, but they did the opposite. You can't balme the EU for the fact that Ahern, McCreevy and Harney decided to buy the 2002 and 2007 elections by driving a housing bubble. The EU warned them several times about it all. They ignored the warnings because winning elections and enriching their friends was more important than building a sustainable economy. Their mantra was that the EU didn't understand us, didn't understand our success, they're jealous of our success! Yeah, right.

And the influx of foreign workers was Irish government policy. In 2004, the government did not impose the restrictions on new member states that most other countries did. They actually sent people abroad (even FAS!) to attract people here. This was an Irish government decision remember.

The destruction of the Irish economy is entirely the work of FF and the PDs, and specifically, Ahern, McCreevy and Harney.
 

irishfeller

Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
49
Why is our low corporation tax rate still such a taboo?
Probably because lots of companies in Germany and elsewhere just set up a head office in Ireland and put their taxes through here. It is basically daylight robbery by Ireland....these businesses were fostered in other countries, employ workers educated in these other countries, sell lots of products in these other countries....and we just coax them to set up their head office here and we get lots of tax for nothing!!! That is what a lot of our economy is based on.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top