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Enda Kenny's Proposed 'Suicide Abortion' Legislation and Surrogacy Ruling.


Radix

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Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child, where now Kenny's proposed legislation on abortion on the basis of expressed suicidal ideation?

If a surrogate mother expresses such an ideation, will the real mother have to be consulted before the State facilitates the abortion of her child?

Can such a mother take a case against the State for ending her child's life?


Surrogate's sister wins landmark ruling to be recognised legally as mum of twins - Independent.ie

Irish government announces plans to legalize abortion, with limits | National Catholic Reporter

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0305/372757-surrogate/
 
Last edited:


Morgellons

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How often is that scenario likely to happen? It's a good hypothetical question I suppose, but don't you think there's more pressing issues to discuss?
 

mido

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Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child, where now Kenny's proposed legislation on abortion on the basis of expressed suicidal ideation?
on this site I venture there will be posts from extremists on both sides of the debate making ever ever-increasing insane and unsustainable arguments - the 80% of the population out there who have no time fro either extreme will get on with their lives and leave private matters between doctors and patients where they belong- in private and based on medical evidence.

as regards your hypothetical question for the courts - they may find in favour-against or they may never have it come before them or they may or the sun may rise in the west
 
B

Boggle

Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child, where now Kenny's proposed legislation on abortion on the basis of expressed suicidal ideation?

If a surrogate mother expresses such an ideation, will the real mother have to be consulted before the State facilitates the abortion of her child?

Can such a mother take a case against the State for ending her child's life?


Surrogate's sister wins landmark ruling to be recognised legally as mum of twins - Independent.ie

Irish government announces plans to legalize abortion, with limits | National Catholic Reporter
I don't get it. The genetic mother is in the same boat as the genetic father and gets no say.
 
B

Boggle

Of course if people think the genetic mother should get a say then they are also acknowledging that a father should also get a say under normal circumstances.
 

Kev408

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Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child, where now Kenny's proposed legislation on abortion on the basis of expressed suicidal ideation?

If a surrogate mother expresses such an ideation, will the real mother have to be consulted before the State facilitates the abortion of her child?

Can such a mother take a case against the State for ending her child's life?


Surrogate's sister wins landmark ruling to be recognised legally as mum of twins - Independent.ie

Irish government announces plans to legalize abortion, with limits | National Catholic Reporter
I may be reading your Indo link incorrectly but can you direct me to where there is any mention of an 'unborn child'.
 
D

Deleted member 34656

Birth Certificates are issued after the birth of the child.

Until the birth there are no parents of any kind.
 

Radix

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How often is that scenario likely to happen? It's a good hypothetical question I suppose, but don't you think there's more pressing issues to discuss?

The most "pressing issues" are always 'the life issues' you'll have to agree, and this question is a rather obvious one for the Government given its recently announced intent on legalising suicide abortions.

Will the legal mother now have to be asked for her opinion on the termination of her child in a case where the surrogate says she is suicidal?

I think that there is no doubt but that she will have to be, and this is only the beginning of the legal quagmire being excavated by the Taoiseach, post his announcement of legislating for abortion in circumstances such as these.
 

Half Nelson

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Birth Certificates are issued after the birth of the child.

Until the birth there are no parents of any kind.
40.3.3 The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.
Who is the mother?
 

Mercurial

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This will end up being a quirk of the law at best, which can be ironed out with careful wording.
 

petaljam

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Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child, where now Kenny's proposed legislation on abortion on the basis of expressed suicidal ideation?

If a surrogate mother expresses such an ideation, will the real mother have to be consulted before the State facilitates the abortion of her child?

Can such a mother take a case against the State for ending her child's life?
No.

Going by what Maria Steen of the Iona Institute explained about the situation in the UK this evening. (I think it was her, anyway) The genetic mother can't even force the surrogate mother to hand over the baby after its birth, never mind exert vicarious parental rights over the woman's body before the baby is born.
 

Kev408

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"Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child..."

I ask you again, Radix, to point out where the High Court said anything of the sort.

I can see why many posters are utterly sick and tired of some people telling blatant lies in opening posts.
 

Half Nelson

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It's clear that in that case "mother" is intended to refer to the woman carrying the child, rather than the genetic mother.
The voters didn't "intend" that the threat of suicide would be grounds for abortion, yet here we are.

We may end up with two legal definitions of 'mother', depending on the circumstances.

But if the mother can only be the genetic mother then article 40.3.3 may give superior rights to the unborn, where the mother is a surrogate.
 

Radix

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Of course if people think the genetic mother should get a say then they are also acknowledging that a father should also get a say under normal circumstances.


Indeed, I agree that fathers are still a much maligned group within our legal system, and one must suppose that if he expresses suicidal ideations based on his fatherhood, his child will not have his or her life ended under the current proposals unless his partner also expresses such ideations.
 

Kev408

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"Given that The High Court has said that the genetic mother of an unborn child is in legal fact the mother of the child..."

I ask you again, Radix, to point out where the High Court said anything of the sort.

I can see why many posters are utterly sick and tired of some people telling blatant lies in opening posts.
You're obviously reading this thread so I'll ask again for a third time...,
 

Mercurial

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The voters didn't "intend" that the threat of suicide would be grounds for abortion, yet here we are.

We may end up with two legal definitions of 'mother', depending on the circumstances.

But if the mother can only be the genetic mother then article 40.3.3 may give superior rights to the unborn, where the mother is a surrogate.
It won't. This is silly speculation.
 

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