Ethiopian Airlines B737 crashes


cozzy121

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Boom,

Statement: Boeing 737 MAX Aircraft.
The UK Civil Aviation Authority has issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.
You can read the full update online
Banned From UK Airspace

On RTÉ One’s News at One, Simon Calder, travel editor of London’s Independent said:
It would not surprise me at all if the Irish Aviation Authority followed suit. The main airline using the jet, both in Ireland and in the UK, is Norwegian. TUI Airways also have some.
“But crucially Ryanair has the biggest order in Europe: 135 of those jets. They do not start flying until May.”​
 

Jack Walsh

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Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!

Ok, this is not a piss take, the above has just been Tweeted by Trump
Anyone who says this anti science and anti technology diatribe is anything other than raving lunacy is themself an idiot.
Trump is trying to attack science and technology.
Classic authoritarian BS, attack clever people to appease dolts who will agree with you

Trumps attack is also grossly irresponsible as we do not even know the cause of the accident, but here is blaming MIT scientists
FFS
MADMAN
 

Herr Rommel

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Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!

Ok, this is not a piss take, the above has just been Tweeted by Trump
Anyone who says this anti science and anti technology diatribe is anything other than raving lunacy is themself an idiot.
Trump is trying to attack science and technology.
Classic authoritarian BS, attack clever people to appease dolts who will agree with you

Trumps attack is also grossly irresponsible as we do not even know the cause of the accident, but here is blaming MIT scientists
FFS
MADMAN
POTUS makes some good points.
 

artfoley56

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Trumps attack is also grossly irresponsible as we do not even know the cause of the accident, but here is blaming MIT scientists
FFS
MADMAN
a bit like you not knowing the cause of the crash, deciding to blame the boeing workers who you thought voted trump. you've a lot in common with the donald
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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MCAS being the problem is still just speculation.

If it is MCAS then it perhaps it may be resolved by a special training requirement or perhaps it may need more than that and require significant redesign.
Once had an aviation expert explain the the agility of some modern fighter jets follows from their inherently unstable design, and thaat sophisticated flight controls and pilot training are necessary in order to fly them safely. . This new Boeing design of old frame and new engine has changed the stability of the plane, leading to a new stability control software. and new pilot trsining requirements.
Maybe the design has got ahead of control technology and pilot training.
 

bormotello

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Once had an aviation expert explain the the agility of some modern fighter jets follows from their inherently unstable design, and thaat sophisticated flight controls and pilot training are necessary in order to fly them safely. . This new Boeing design of old frame and new engine has changed the stability of the plane, leading to a new stability control software. and new pilot trsining requirements.
Maybe the design has got ahead of control technology and pilot training.
F-15 and Su-27 we're first planes designed with relaxed static stability and they are flying since 1970s. My wireless charger from aliexpress has more processing power than Su-27.
Main problem is quality of guys who design software now and before
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Once had an aviation expert explain the the agility of some modern fighter jets follows from their inherently unstable design, and thaat sophisticated flight controls and pilot training are necessary in order to fly them safely. . This new Boeing design of old frame and new engine has changed the stability of the plane, leading to a new stability control software. and new pilot trsining requirements.
Maybe the design has got ahead of control technology and pilot training.
I agree with your general theme....however just to clarify the B737 Max isn’t an inherently unstable design. It is an old 1960s airframe that has been ‘pimped’ to keep it competitive versus the Airbus 320 family. The original airframes stability has been compromised a little in order to do this. It’s basic airframe stability margin has been reduced marginally with this update. That is only a potential problem with high power and rear trimmed configurations. IMO, and I qualify that as a pilot who has no experience of Boeing aircraft, is that temporary grounding is a good policy, but I think this probably doesn’t warrant a major redesign. I think relatively minor software changes and special training packages should be enough to resolve this issue. MCAS malfunction should be within the capability of all pilots to deal with provided they have had sufficient simulator experience and practice in dealing with such malfunctions. These Ethiopian pilots, a new captain on type and a very inexperienced first officer, were presented with this problem very shortly after take off had very little time to deal with this problem. They should have had repeated practical exposure in a simulator to this scenario.....reading technical update notice was not enough.
 
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Nebuchadnezzar

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Witness reports of smoke pouring out from the rear and burning luggage falling to the ground would suggest other causes...



Ethiopian air crash: Airlines ground Boeing 737 Max 8 jets | Daily Mail Online
I think one should always be a little sceptical of non technical eyewitness accounts.....however smoke and objects falling from the aircraft may be due to a number of factors....

1. Smoke from engines due to compressor stall or engine surge.....the engines may have malfunctioned due to sudden extreme changes in aircraft attitudes and speed. Such malfunctions can result in smoke and large temporary plumes of flames from the engines.

2. Airframe speed exceedence....it seems that the aircraft impacted at high angle and high speed. Probably at a speed well beyond its design limitation. Airframe breakup may have started due to speed exceedence with perhaps extremities such as flaps or fairing panels breaking off in flight.
 

General Mayhem

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With speed exceedance the fires would be gone out long before hitting the ground/viewable by eyewitnesses.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Apparently, (just found out) the 737-8AS are different from the 737-8Max. Ryanair's new planes are 737-200 Max, different again. Confusing product names abound.
By "new planes", you mean the ones on order, right? Because the current Ryanair fleet are 737-800s.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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The European Union's aviation safety agency has suspended all flights on Boeing 737 MAX planes in the bloc following the Ethiopian Airlines accident.

EU aviation safety agency grounds all flights on Boeing 737 MAX planes

However, The US Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) has said it will not suspend Boeing 737 Max aircraft despite mounting pressure from senators and workers' unions:

US refuses to ground Boeing crash aircraft

The FAA is perhaps conflicted however as it approved the 737 MAX in the first place.
 
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