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EU chucks out the rule book to set up 'Stabilisation Fund'.


He3

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The drama deepens.

There is a very good account of the 'Stabilisation Fund' and its dodgy legal basis written by Karl Whelan here - The Irish Economy Blog Archive European Stabilisation Mechanism Announced

Karl Whelan said:
This would pretty much be breaking the spirit, if not the letter, of the Treaty. But, we’re in this territory already. The existing Greek bailout is being legally justified on the basis of this clause in Article 122:

''Where a Member State is in difficulties or is seriously threatened with severe difficulties caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control, the Council, acting by a qualified majority on a proposal from the Commission, may grant, under certain conditions, Community financial assistance to the Member State concerned.''

Greece, apparently, is suffering from a natural disaster or an exceptional occurence beyond its control.
The pressure is telling as Schaueble is rushed to hospital.

BBC News - EU finance ministers debate 'stabilisation fund'

This has delayed the press conference at which we are to be told what has been agreed.

Whelan notes that if they use the same formula to calculate each member State's payment as they have used previously, Ireland will be required to pay more than €4000 million.

Anyone remember the excitement in Albert Reynolds' time over the five billion we were to get in structural funds? It bought a Constitutional amendment.

Looks like we may get to give it back soon.
 
Last edited:


rockofcashel

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How much crap do people think that the Irish people will put up with, before losing it altogether... we're gone from having to perhaps pay 400 million, to 1.3 billion, to maybe 4 billion.. and we havent a pot to piss in ourselves
 

DCon

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How much crap do people think that the Irish people will put up with, before losing it altogether... we're gone from having to perhaps pay 400 million, to 1.3 billion, to maybe 4 billion.. and we havent a pot to piss in ourselves
Given that 22 billion has gone to Anglo without a peep, I predict the Irish people have no threshold
 

Christine Murray

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The drama deepens.

There is a very good account of the 'Stabilisation Fund' and its dodgy legal basis written by Karl Whelan here - The Irish Economy Blog Archive European Stabilisation Mechanism Announced



The pressure is telling as Schaueble is rushed to hospital.

BBC News - EU finance ministers debate 'stabilisation fund'

This has delayed the press conference at which we are to be told what has been agreed.

Whelan notes that if they use the same formula to calculate each member State's payment as they have used previously, Ireland will be required to pay more than €4000 million.

Anyone remember the excitement in Albert Reynolds' time over the five billion we were to get in structural funds? It bought a Constitutional amendment.

Looks like we may get to give it back soon.
There is a good France24 link and Vid here :

France24 - EU scrambles to come up with stabilisation mechanism
 

toughbutfair

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FF can be blamed for the property bubble, our loss in competiveness,NAMA and the money being put into Anglo.

However, this Greek problem and the possibility of it spreading is one of the few things this government cannot be blamed for.

I do believe the ministers in Europe will come up with a solution. The governments of the world are more powerful than speculators.
 

Christine Murray

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FF can be blamed for the property bubble, our loss in competiveness,NAMA and the money being put into Anglo.

However, this Greek problem and the possibility of it spreading is one of the few things this government cannot be blamed for.

I do believe the ministers in Europe will come up with a solution. The governments of the world are more powerful than speculators.
Vid here, apparently sarko and berlusconi pulled out of the Red Square Parade to attend the meetings
But Merkel did not :

France24 - EU scrambles to come up with stabilisation mechanism
 

Grumpy Jack

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Genuine questions here because we really are into unknown territory now.

What is the alternative to the Greek bailout or this Stabilisation Fund and Ireland playing its part in both?

Should Greece be left to the mercy of the markets? And then let them turn on Spain, Portugal, ourselves, Italy, etc, until there is no one left?

Should the euro be allowed to just collapse and we accept all the consequences that will flow from that?

Or should the EU, including Ireland, do all it can to save the euro and the eurozone economies?

We really don't know where we are going at this rate and no one seems to have any answers to the crisis.
 

He3

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Vid here, apparently sarko and berlusconi pulled out of the Red Square Parade to attend the meetings
But Merkel did not :

France24 - EU scrambles to come up with stabilisation mechanism
Still waiting to find out how much of the rule book they are ditching and at what price. Anyone know who is representing Ireland?

BBC said:
The meeting has temporarily broken up for bilateral discussions.

Exact details of what was on the table are not yet known.

While bail-outs are technically banned under EU rules, the European Commission reportedly plans to extend an existing clause in the Lisbon Treaty, originally designed to allow it to provide aid to non-eurozone states experiencing serious difficulties, to eurozone members.
 

CookieMonster

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But the jobs... and the recovery...?
 

Grumpy Jack

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But the jobs... and the recovery...?
This is really not a time for glib remarks.

We are in a major crisis to which no one seems to have a solution.

I will ask again - what is the alternative?

How do we stop the markets devouring the eurozone countries one by one?
 

Wakeupcall

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This is really not a time for glib remarks.

We are in a major crisis to which no one seems to have a solution.

I will ask again - what is the alternative?

How do we stop the markets devouring the eurozone countries one by one?
Catch them of-guard and annihilate them! :)
 

DCon

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Anyone know who is representing Ireland?
BIFFO went on Friday. Assume he is still there. Doubt he is contributing much.


The Taoiseach, Mr. Brian Cowen T.D., will today (7 May 2010) attend a meeting of the Heads of State or Government of the Euro Area in Brussels.

The meeting has been convened by the President of the European Council, Mr. Herman Van Rompuy, following the agreement reached by ministers for finance of the Eurogroup on the adjustment programme and activation of financial support to Greece on 2 May. The meeting will take stock of the procedures underway at national level implementing the agreement.
Taoiseach to Attend Meeting of the Heads of State or Government of the Euro Area in Brussels | Fianna Fáil
 

Ulster-Lad

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This is really not a time for glib remarks.

We are in a major crisis to which no one seems to have a solution.

I will ask again - what is the alternative?

How do we stop the markets devouring the eurozone countries one by one?
Is the devaluation of the Euro really such a bad thing? Would it not make us more competitive in the world markets? I believe the only reason the US has stabilised in this is the weak dollar. Their goods are very competitive compared to Europe's.
 

Johnny

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Should Greece be left to the mercy of the markets? And then let them turn on Spain, Portugal, ourselves, Italy, etc, until there is no one left?

Should the euro be allowed to just collapse and we accept all the consequences that will flow from that?

Isn't that the whole point of capitalism? Just let the market decide, etc? AH, if only they had the magairlí to back up all their hype.....

I always love how the macho, buckaneering, light-touch regulation, free market types crawl and snivel for state intervention when there's nothing left in the trough for their insatiable snouts.

Capitalise the profits, socialise the debts.

They make my fúcking blood boil.....
 

He3

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Cowen was at the HoSoG meeting on Saturday but this is being thrashed out by EcoFin afaik. Is Lenihan there?
 
D

Deleted member 17573

This is really not a time for glib remarks.

We are in a major crisis to which no one seems to have a solution.

I will ask again - what is the alternative?

How do we stop the markets devouring the eurozone countries one by one?
A guarantee to be issued by the ECB covering all eurozone sovereign debt. Make it clear to bondholders that this is the best offer they're ever going to get. And in return they reduce interest rates to somewhere in the region of 3 to 4 % and if they don't like that they get precisely nuttin. And give 'em 10 mins to take it or leave it. A bunch of bankrupt countries does not serve their interest any more than it serves ours - we need to remember that they're as scared as we are!
 

Grumpy Jack

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Isn't that the whole point of capitalism? Just let the market decide, etc? AH, if only they had the magairlí to back up all their hype.....

I always love how the macho, buckaneering, light-touch regulation, free market types crawl and snivel for state intervention when there's nothing left in the trough for their insatiable snouts.

Capitalise the profits, socialise the debts.

They make my fúcking blood boil.....
They make mine boil too but they are not going away. Raging at them will not solve the problem.

This needs dealt with in such away that these parasites and vultures are stopped in their tracks now so that they cannot come back again and again every time they smell blood.

How can this be done? Can it even be done?
 

He3

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This misses the point:

RTE said:
'We now see ... wolfpack behaviours, and if we will not stop these packs, even if it is self-inflicted weakness, they will tear the weaker countries apart,' Swedish Finance Minister Anders Borg told reporters on arrival for the meeting.
Are they still talking?
 

Catalpa

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The drama deepens.

There is a very good account of the 'Stabilisation Fund' and its dodgy legal basis written by Karl Whelan here - The Irish Economy Blog Archive European Stabilisation Mechanism Announced



The pressure is telling as Schaueble is rushed to hospital.

BBC News - EU finance ministers debate 'stabilisation fund'

This has delayed the press conference at which we are to be told what has been agreed.

Whelan notes that if they use the same formula to calculate each member State's payment as they have used previously, Ireland will be required to pay more than €4000 million.

Anyone remember the excitement in Albert Reynolds' time over the five billion we were to get in structural funds? It bought a Constitutional amendment.

Looks like we may get to give it back soon.
Under the proposals, the Commission would borrow money for the stabilisation mechanism directly on the markets to guarantee troubled country's debts.

Such a development would obviously hugely increase the power of the EU Commission

- that is made up of unelected politicians.:?
 

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