EU Citizenship for sale?

gleeful

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An interesting proposal in the EU parliament is being debated - whether to offer UK citizens the chance to individually buy back their EU citizenship post Brexit. Purchased rights would include the right to live and work in the EU.

I understand the motivation behind this suggestion but the precedent it sets is quite interesting. If non-EU nationals from the UK can buy in - why not let anyone do it? Would citizenship lapse if the fee wasn't paid? Could it be dropped like a subscription and then reacquired as needed? Its also, for the first time, creating a class of EU citizenship which is separate from national citizenship - presumably the EU commission would be issuing a special EU Passport. These people would be true EU level, federal, citizens.

How much would you be willing to pay for this? €1000/year?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/09/eu-citizenship-proposal-could-guarantee-rights-in-europe-after-brexit
 


cricket

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Read that earlier, interesting concept but I doubt it would stand up legally as it would confer a different status of EU citizenship to that of people in other states.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The notion came from an EU negotiator and can be written off in that light. Posturing.
 

gleeful

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The notion came from an EU negotiator and can be written off in that light. Posturing.
From a political point of view its genius as it outwardly seems generous yet fosters divisions on the British side. The Brexiteers are foaming at the mouth in their opposition, and so lose face. It also furthers the Federalists agenda - making a new class of super-national citizenship.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
From a political point of view its genius as it outwardly seems generous yet fosters divisions on the British side. The Brexiteers are foaming at the mouth in their opposition, and so lose face. It also furthers the Federalists agenda - making a new class of super-national citizenship.
I'm pretty sure negotiators on the UK side will see this for what it is. Pre-negotiation posturing.
 
D

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Every citizen of an EU member state is a EU citizen, but I am not sure there is any other mechanism for obtaining citizenship. And I don't think the EU would have the authority to make such an offer.
 

lord

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Malta was selling EU citizenship not long ago i seem to remember reading
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Denis won't like that. It cheapens his Maltese patriotism.
 

Spanner Island

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From a political point of view its genius as it outwardly seems generous yet fosters divisions on the British side. The Brexiteers are foaming at the mouth in their opposition, and so lose face. It also furthers the Federalists agenda - making a new class of super-national citizenship.
It's not genius at all...

The UK is divided on this issue and will remain so... just as the US is divided on the Trump issue... and will remain so.

There is no hope of reconciliation in either country and the rest of the world should take note of that.

It is beyond stupid to expect either country to unite because the divisions are too deep and it's simply not going to happen... imo.
 

gleeful

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Every citizen of an EU member state is a EU citizen, but I am not sure there is any other mechanism for obtaining citizenship. And I don't think the EU would have the authority to make such an offer.
"1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship."

It says all citizens of member states are citizens of the union. Technically it doesn't say that others cannot be granted citizens. So the EU probably could confer a new type of citizenship on who it likes.
 
D

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"1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship."

It says all citizens of member states are citizens of the union. Technically it doesn't say that others cannot be granted citizens. So the EU probably could confer a new type of citizenship on who it likes.
It's not in the gift of the EU - I think it would be a treaty amendment issue - Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
"1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship."

It says all citizens of member states are citizens of the union. Technically it doesn't say that others cannot be granted citizens. So the EU probably could confer a new type of citizenship on who it likes.
Already done that with tax and salary arrangements around its own bureaucracy in Brussels and Strasbourg.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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I believe the proposal is to allow Brirish subjects to pay an annual fee which would entitle them to associate EU citizenship.

Good idea I think.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I wonder would you get your money back if the EU project fell apart in the next five years?:)

Probably not.
 
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"1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship."

It says all citizens of member states are citizens of the union. Technically it doesn't say that others cannot be granted citizens. So the EU probably could confer a new type of citizenship on who it likes.
Could a UK citizen seek redress through the courts for their involuntary loss of a citizenship?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
There was a piece in New Scientist this last week examining the history of the nation state and coming to the conclusion that the difficulty the European federal project was encountering was down to the principle that it was a kind of league of nations.

The thrust of the article seemed to me to be a call for a construct that was separate from nations altogether- a sort of new feudalism in a way. It quoted a country like Tanzania which is a national gathering of some 200 tribes and as many languages and pointed out that the arbitrary history of nation states arrived at by a clerk's pencil drawing borderlines was a hindrance to future development.

I'm sure it will be seized upon by the technocrat and the tax evader alike as justification for their views. It was an interesting piece dating the concept of nation back to the 17th century in Europe and the rise of a structure beyond the immediate tribal geography.

For a state as young as ours in its modern incarnation it was a fascinating piece. It appears that in arguing for a supranational federation of what were independent states our own elected representatives are effectively arguing for their own redundancy.

The danger of appointing a technocracy in place of pluralist democracy based on the nation state was not really examined in the article but at least it openly admitted to inspiration from a sort of middle ages feudalism which existed before the concept of nation.

Whether that will sit well with the average citizen is another matter.
 
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Another question: could a UK citizen revoke their UK citizenship and invoke the UDHR to retain EU citizenship?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Even better- just get off the plane in any European country and claim asylum. That way the local citizens pay.
 


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