EU Commission announces it will take Ireland to court for failing to recover Apple Tax

blokesbloke

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Just noticed this on a tweet and popped over to P.ie, but couldn't see any thread on it.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/916972446372134913

The tweet includes a brief video which I can't see how to link to here, but there's a fuller on here...

[video]http://europa.eu/!TY88Hd[/video]

It appears the EU Commission has run out of patience with Ireland is now taking Ireland to court for failing to require Apple to pay its taxes.

Apparently Luxembourg is also to be taken to court for failing to collect tax from Amazon.

What now? Will Ireland now comply or will Dublin fight this in court?

Should Ireland accept now it must do this or do they have a chance of persuading the court that Apple does not owe it this money?

Apple owes Ireland a lot of money - I appreciate that the economic model has been based on low taxes for MNCs, but the billions Apple would be forced to pay to Ireland would surely provide a useful cushion and a means of investment to get Ireland off the dependence on MNCs and low coporation tax?
 


ger12

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Balls, this will hurt.
 

Deadlock

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Just noticed this on a tweet and popped over to P.ie, but couldn't see any thread on it.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/916972446372134913

The tweet includes a brief video which I can't see how to link to here, but there's a fuller on here...

[video]http://europa.eu/!TY88Hd[/video]

It appears the EU Commission has run out of patience with Ireland is now taking Ireland to court for failing to require Apple to pay its taxes.

Apparently Luxembourg is also to be taken to court for failing to collect tax from Amazon.

What now? Will Ireland now comply or will Dublin fight this in court?

Should Ireland accept now it must do this or do they have a chance of persuading the court that Apple does not owe it this money?

Apple owes Ireland a lot of money - I appreciate that the economic model has been based on low taxes for MNCs, but the billions Apple would be forced to pay to Ireland would surely provide a useful cushion and a means of investment to get Ireland off the dependence on MNCs and low coporation tax?
I'm not fully uptodate - but as I understand it Ireland and Apple have agreed that the money will be sent to an escrow account pending the appeal proper and then US claims. The issue is, I believe, that Ireland is trying to have that escrow account managed so that the Irish taxpayer is not liable for asset price fluctuations on the funds held in that escrow.

Let the Commission throw its strop. It's worth taking a little time to make sure this is done properly from the start.
 

brughahaha

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Just noticed this on a tweet and popped over to P.ie, but couldn't see any thread on it.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/916972446372134913

The tweet includes a brief video which I can't see how to link to here, but there's a fuller on here...

[video]http://europa.eu/!TY88Hd[/video]

It appears the EU Commission has run out of patience with Ireland is now taking Ireland to court for failing to require Apple to pay its taxes.

Apparently Luxembourg is also to be taken to court for failing to collect tax from Amazon.

What now? Will Ireland now comply or will Dublin fight this in court?

Should Ireland accept now it must do this or do they have a chance of persuading the court that Apple does not owe it this money?

Apple owes Ireland a lot of money - I appreciate that the economic model has been based on low taxes for MNCs, but the billions Apple would be forced to pay to Ireland would surely provide a useful cushion and a means of investment to get Ireland off the dependence on MNCs and low coporation tax?
I think its the lack of collection ..regardless , it will end in an escrow account until its decided ...........

The official reluctance to admit Apple was taking the p1ss would make you wonder what other skeletons lie in revenues closet ....much touted as operating with out fear or favour , the non show of certain well connected political advisors in the tax defaulters list , the allegations that certain individuals were "overlooked" in the ansbacher investigation and jobs given to certain senior ex revenue officials , combine to make me highly suspicious

Now imagine Apple was an indigenous SME ...Revenue would have hounded them unmercifully, fined the crap out of them and nailed their balls to the wall ...... in a high handed snotty threatening manner too
 

blokesbloke

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I'm not fully uptodate - but as I understand it Ireland and Apple have agreed that the money will be sent to an escrow account pending the appeal proper and then US claims. The issue is, I believe, that Ireland is trying to have that escrow account managed so that the Irish taxpayer is not liable for asset price fluctuations on the funds held in that escrow.

Let the Commission throw it's strop. It's worth taking a little time to make sure this is done properly from the start.
In that case that brief video in the clip is very misleading... it implies Ireland has done nothing to recover the tax.

The Commission should not be giving such a false impression.
 

brughahaha

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In that case that brief video in the clip is very misleading... it implies Ireland has done nothing to recover the tax.

The Commission should not be giving such a false impression.
No , thats the issue , the Government has been dragging its heels getting the funds from Apple to put in an Escrow ...... you can be sure Apple has it somewhere earning ...it shouldn't
 

GDPR

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I'm ambiguous about this in that on the one hand I believe that Apple should pay up what it owes but on the another....Well I don't like the "European Commission" telling anyone what to do.
 

ger12

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In that case that brief video in the clip is very misleading... it implies Ireland has done nothing to recover the tax.

The Commission should not be giving such a false impression.
Is it a false impression?
 

Deadlock

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In that case that brief video in the clip is very misleading... it implies Ireland has done nothing to recover the tax.

The Commission should not be giving such a false impression.
I can't say BB - my browser is complaining about the video format so I can't hear or judge what the Commission are saying on the matter. If the Commission is being nasty, Ireland only needs to remind them that it has noted the judgement, but that taxation matters and competences remain firmly domestic matters, and will discharge those matters when it alone is content that consultations on the matter are complete, not on the Commissions schedule.
 

blokesbloke

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Is it a false impression?
Well surely not if Ireland has got the money in escrow. If it had made no attempt at all to recover it it wouldn't have done that.
 

Voluntary

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I'm ambiguous about this in that on the one hand I believe that Apple should pay up what it owes but on the another....Well I don't like the "European Commission" telling anyone what to do.
Our local businesses got unfair treatment by our own government. Not many see it this way, but the Commission acted to protect Irish local businesses from this unfair treatment. How can a local business compete with a multinational corporation if MNCs are allowed to pay less taxes than local businesses? The EU says the playground should be fair for all, they don't care if we have 12.5% CGT or if we even had 1%, what they say is: you can't tax your small local people more than you charge foreigners on their incomes.
 

wombat

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In that case that brief video in the clip is very misleading... it implies Ireland has done nothing to recover the tax.

The Commission should not be giving such a false impression.
I think they are saying "show us the money" and we can't - it gets headlines in EU countries and it helps that Apple are a U.S. company.
 

Deadlock

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Well surely not if Ireland has got the money in escrow. If it had made no attempt at all to recover it it wouldn't have done that.
Again - not fully uptodate BB - but as I understand it both Apple and Ireland are agreed on that approach, but the money is not yet in escrow, pending Ireland's examination of the management of the escrow account.
 

The_SR

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Well surely not if Ireland has got the money in escrow. If it had made no attempt at all to recover it it wouldn't have done that.
I think we are making a token attempt, talks about talks, and the EC has gone in swinging.

Ultimately I can't see the EC winning. 1. Apple paid their tax bill. Whether that bill was enough is a domestic matter. 2. The 13bn figure is arbitrary at best. 3. Whatever the figure is its not all owed to Ireland. The revenue aren't an outsourced debt collector for the rest of EMEA
 

stopdoingstuff

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I think the only way to stop this is to threaten to re-nominate Phil Hogan.
 

wombat

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Our local businesses got unfair treatment by our own government. Not many see it this way, but the Commission acted to protect Irish local businesses from this unfair treatment. How can a local business compete with a multinational corporation if MNCs are allowed to pay less taxes than local businesses? The EU says the playground should be fair for all, they don't care if we have 12.5% CGT or if we even had 1%, what they say is: you can't tax your small local people more than you charge foreigners on their incomes.
Not related, Apple pay the same tax on profits generated in Ireland as anyone else, what the commission are saying is that Ireland should collect tax on business done elsewhere. US multinationals have a lot of profits travelling around the world waiting for the US to cut business tax at which stage, they'll be returned to the US, I doubt the EU will see much of the 13b.
 

wombat

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Again - not fully uptodate BB - but as I understand it both Apple and Ireland are agreed on that approach, but the money is not yet in escrow, pending Ireland's examination of the management of the escrow account.
Apparently, the govt are afraid that Apple will want interest on the 13b and its hard to find anyone willing to pay interest at present.
 

midlander12

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Well surely not if Ireland has got the money in escrow. If it had made no attempt at all to recover it it wouldn't have done that.
No it's not in escrow yet. The official reason is that no one has ever set up this type of account before and the Govt is afraid that Apple will sue them for lost interest if they win their appeal and get their money back. The Irish govt is also appealing the original Commission decision and it's fair to say that opening the account is probably not high priority. My sympathies here are with the Govt for once - this is a rare case of them standing up to the EU, whatever the merits of the original tax decision, which I see as being a Irish and not an EU judgment to make.
 


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