EU Commission announces it will take Ireland to court for failing to recover Apple Tax

wombat

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Voluntary

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Apparently, the govt are afraid that Apple will want interest on the 13b and its hard to find anyone willing to pay interest at present.
Also I don't think it's 13 Billion. They say 13B plus interest. Revenue statutory interest on late payments is something around 10% per year.
 

brughahaha

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12.5%, after the deductions available to every other business.
Bull sh1t ..the Company that made the billions was an Apple Dublin brass plate company ...and it paid nothing
 

Voluntary

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12.5%, after the deductions available to every other business.
I think you may have your facts wrong.

See below:

The Commission decision of 30 August 2016 concluded that Ireland's tax benefits to Apple were illegal under EU State aid rules, because it allowed Apple to pay substantially less tax than other businesses. As a matter of principle, EU State aid rules require that illegal State aid is recovered in order to remove the distortion of competition created by the aid.
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - State aid: Commission refers Ireland to Court for failure to recover illegal tax benefits from Apple worth up to
 

Wascurito

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It's a stupid response by the EC. The money will be collected but 13bn is an enormous sum, it's a complex legal process (something Vestager did acknowledge) and the Irish government wants to ensure that Irish tax payers aren't in hock should the EC case be rejected and Apple choose to contest that it lost returns because 13bn of its money was in an escrow account.

Maybe Margrethe Vestager might spend more time addressing these matters than poncing around in grandstanding news conferences.
 

brughahaha

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Also I don't think it's 13 Billion. They say 13B plus interest. Revenue statutory interest on late payments is something around 10% per year.
Its 10% if its deemed an oversight ....rising to 70% if its deemed deliberately fraudulent behaviour . Amounts involved relative to turnover is the other factor in deeming if it was serious or not
 
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brughahaha

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It's a stupid response by the EC. The money will be collected but 13bn is an enormous sum, it's a complex legal process (something Vestager did acknowledge) and the Irish government wants to ensure that Irish tax payers aren't in hock should the EC case be rejected and Apple choose to contest that it lost returns because 13bn of its money was in an escrow account.

Maybe Margrethe Vestager might spend more time addressing these matters than poncing around in grandstanding news conferences.
Apple and Ireland arent the only cases , cases involving McDonalds Microsoft Fiat and Amazon off the top of my head.....in all those the money lies is in escrow until a final decision .....its not rocket science ...Interest bearing Escrows are fairly straightforward , and simply involve agreement of both parties ........ The "interest" excuse is just that ....an excuse
 

Disillusioned democrat

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It's a stupid response by the EC. The money will be collected but 13bn is an enormous sum, it's a complex legal process (something Vestager did acknowledge) and the Irish government wants to ensure that Irish tax payers aren't in hock should the EC case be rejected and Apple choose to contest that it lost returns because 13bn of its money was in an escrow account.

Maybe Margrethe Vestager might spend more time addressing these matters than poncing around in grandstanding news conferences.
Same week they found Junkers Luxembourg gave a sweetheart deal to Amazon...this is just to take the spot light off the fact that the EU had a hypocrite as a president.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/10/juncker-amazon-luxembourg-eased-tax-expert-comfort

 

brughahaha

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brughahaha

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Same week they found Junkers Luxembourg gave a sweetheart deal to Amazon...this is just to take the spot light off the fact that the EU had a hypocrite as a president.

Oh it wasnt just Amazon with Junker ...it was possibly the biggest tax evasion scam ever ...and its all down to Junker ...his office ran it ......
 

wombat

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Maybe Margrethe Vestager might spend more time addressing these matters than poncing around in grandstanding news conferences.
She probably has domestic political ambitions when she leaves the commission. Using competition rules to attack the tax laws of member states is stretching their powers, the question that the court will decide is whether the tax laws applied to Apple are the same as those available to other companies. I think where it will get tricky is that Apple were a small manufacturing company when the rules were made but now their profits are generated from intellectual property and online sales.
 

Wascurito

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Apple and Ireland arent the only cases , cases involving McDonalds Microsoft Fiat and Amazon off the top of my head.....in all those the money lies is in escrow until a final decision .....its not rocket science ...Interest bearing Escrows are fairly straightforward , and simply involve agreement of both parties ........ The "interest" excuse is just that ....an excuse
It's about the difference between the returns on the escrow account and what returns Apple would get were it able to freely invest that 13bn as it chose. If you think that that's not rocket science, then do your calculations and tell us all what (or how insignificant) that difference would be.
 

brughahaha

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She probably has domestic political ambitions when she leaves the commission. Using competition rules to attack the tax laws of member states is stretching their powers, the question that the court will decide is whether the tax laws applied to Apple are the same as those available to other companies. I think where it will get tricky is that Apple were a small manufacturing company when the rules were made but now their profits are generated from intellectual property and online sales.
Ireland allowed Apple to register the company here , yet not be tax registered here ...So because it was registered here it couldn't be taxed elsewhere ...but Revenue here decided the company wasn't actually resident allowing the company to pay no taxes as it wasnt officially tax resident anywhere

The lack of Tax registration , and non collection of tax gave Apple and unfair advantage ...effectively state aid .... something the EU does have competence over ...We're caught bang to rights

Kind of sad to see so many people who live in a country where public services for the most vulnerable are cut to the bone , cheer lead the worlds riches company as they pay no tax .....explains much about why the country is so sh1t
 

brughahaha

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It's about the difference between the returns on the escrow account and what returns Apple would get were it able to freely invest that 13bn as it chose. If you think that that's not rocket science, then do your calculations and tell us all what (or how insignificant) that difference would be.
And yet Fiat , McDonalds and Microsoft managed it
 

wombat

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Kind of sad to see so many people who live in a country where public services for the most vulnerable are cut to the bone , cheer lead the worlds riches company as they pay no tax .....explains much about why the country is so sh1t
If Apple lose the case, its doubtful much of the tax will stay here. The US will want their share and the countries where the profits were generated will want their cut. I don't own Apple shares, so I have no interest in their profits but I don't want the EU to get any more control over how the state raises taxes.
 

Congalltee

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1. How far can the revenue go back to? 1991 seems very far.
2. Is theee not an EU principle of non-retroactive application of laws?
3. Is Ireland not sovereign on tax? And even more sovereign on how/when it is collected?
4. If all multinationals got the same deal of could get if they were here where is the selection element of state aid?
5. What of effect is the Santander case?
 

brughahaha

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On what amounts? Links would be useful too.
Google is your friend (ironically) ...although if your unaware of the Microsoft Google Amazon cases are you sure youre on the right thread ?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/the-largest-fines-dished-out-by-the-eu-commission-facebook-google.html

On Tuesday, Margrethe Vestager, the EU's competition commissioner, announced a record 2.42 billion euro fine on Google's parent Alphabet for abusing its monopoly over internet searches.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/11/16291482/google-alphabet-eu-fine-antitrust-appeal
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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It's a stupid response by the EC. The money will be collected but 13bn is an enormous sum, it's a complex legal process (something Vestager did acknowledge) and the Irish government wants to ensure that Irish tax payers aren't in hock should the EC case be rejected and Apple choose to contest that it lost returns because 13bn of its money was in an escrow account.

Maybe Margrethe Vestager might spend more time addressing these matters than poncing around in grandstanding news conferences.
13 billion isn't enormous. If the Commission didn't do this, we'd never collect it. As a country we need to grow up...the EU ruled against us, and we appealed. In the meantime, keep the bib clean and at least pretend to care
 


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