EU Commission announces it will take Ireland to court for failing to recover Apple Tax

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Ireland allowed Apple to register the company here , yet not be tax registered here ...So because it was registered here it couldn't be taxed elsewhere ...but Revenue here decided the company wasn't actually resident allowing the company to pay no taxes as it wasnt officially tax resident anywhere

The lack of Tax registration , and non collection of tax gave Apple and unfair advantage ...effectively state aid .... something the EU does have competence over ...We're caught bang to rights

Kind of sad to see so many people who live in a country where public services for the most vulnerable are cut to the bone , cheer lead the worlds riches company as they pay no tax .....explains much about why the country is so sh1t


Even Dan O'Brien says that we'll most likely lose
 


midlander12

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13 billion isn't enormous. If the Commission didn't do this, we'd never collect it. As a country we need to grow up...the EU ruled against us, and we appealed. In the meantime, keep the bib clean and at least pretend to care
I think you're probably the only person on earth that doesn't think 13 bn is 'enormous'. I suppose the point is they didn't want to 'collect' it in the first place and see this as an Irish rather than an EU decision to make. Since they're appealing, I guess they care.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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I think you're probably the only person on earth that doesn't think 13 bn is 'enormous'. I suppose the point is they didn't want to 'collect' it in the first place and see this as an Irish rather than an EU decision to make. Since they're appealing, I guess they care.


Apple has 200 billion of cash sitting offshore.

The government cares that Apple doesn't get upset...it would literally rather burn the money than take it
 

Wascurito

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Google is your friend (ironically) ...although if your [sic] unaware of the Microsoft Google Amazon cases are you sure youre [sic] on the right thread ?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/the...out-by-the-eu-commission-facebook-google.html

On Tuesday, Margrethe Vestager, the EU's competition commissioner, announced a record 2.42 billion euro fine on Google's parent Alphabet for abusing its monopoly over internet searches.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/11/16291482/google-alphabet-eu-fine-antitrust-appeal
The standard is that you defend your own arguments. Posting some point of view and expecting others to do searches on Google to see if you're right or not is lazy and amoebic.

What are the similarities of those cases with the Apple case?

Did Microsoft appeal any of those cases - thereby meaning there'd be a time lag requiring the set up of an escrow accounts? And all related complexities?

In the case of Google, which sovereign government was ordered to collect the money from Google - hence leaving that government open to possible claims should Google win the appeal? You did read your own link and see that Google is appealing (right?) thereby rendering your "[they] managed it" statement rather dubious?

You mentioned Fiat and McDonalds. Your links don't. Ooops. :)
 

Wascurito

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13 billion isn't enormous. If the Commission didn't do this, we'd never collect it. As a country we need to grow up...the EU ruled against us, and we appealed. In the meantime, keep the bib clean and at least pretend to care
Your statement in bold is just hilarious.

Forgive me if I doubt your in-depth knowledge about the management of a 13bn euro fund, the need to follow national and EU rules about tendering for same etc.
 

brughahaha

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The standard is that you defend your own arguments. Posting some point of view and expecting others to do searches on Google to see if you're right or not is lazy and amoebic.

What are the similarities of those cases with the Apple case?

Did Microsoft appeal any of those cases - thereby meaning there'd be a time lag requiring the set up of an escrow accounts? And all related complexities?

In the case of Google, which sovereign government was ordered to collect the money from Google - hence leaving that government open to possible claims should Google win the appeal? You did read your own link and see that Google is appealing (right?) thereby rendering your "[they] managed it" statement rather dubious?

You mentioned Fiat and McDonalds. Your links don't. Ooops. :)
I posted links , what are you wittering about

Actually I (wrongly) assumed you had some sort of clue about the topics under discussion ...now Ive discovered its like being on a thread about the Ireland Wales match and discovering I was discussing it with someone who doesnt even know the rules of the sport :roll:
Yes because Fiat McDonalds and Microsoft are other cases ....


Err google is appealing ....and the money is held is escrow pending the appeal ...sweet jesus :roll:
 

Jim Car

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I thought it has been collected put into a trust of some sort where it cant be accessed. Pending an appeal we will then take control of it or give it back to Apple. But this just off the top of my head so please to correct if I'm wrong.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Your statement in bold is just hilarious.

Forgive me if I doubt your in-depth knowledge about the management of a 13bn euro fund, the need to follow national and EU rules about tendering for same etc.


Right, so the EU is bringing us to court for following its rules? We dragged our heels, simple as.
 

Wascurito

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I posted links , what are you wittering about

Actually I (wrongly) assumed you had some sort of clue about the topics under discussion ...now Ive discovered its like being on a thread about the Ireland Wales match and discovering I was discussing it with someone who doesnt even know the rules of the sport :roll:
Yes because Fiat McDonalds and Microsoft are other cases ....


Err google is appealing ....and the money is held is escrow pending the appeal ...sweet jesus :roll:
You need to address the differences between those cases and the Apple case.
 

Wascurito

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Right, so the EU is bringing us to court for following its rules? We dragged our heels, simple as.
There is ample evidence to suggest that the EC is applying rules retrospectively.

As regard the earlier point, forgive me if I doubt your in-depth knowledge about the management of a 13bn euro fund, the need to follow national and EU rules about tendering for same etc.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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There is ample evidence to suggest that the EC is applying rules retrospectively.

As regard the earlier point, forgive me if I doubt your in-depth knowledge about the management of a 13bn euro fund, the need to follow national and EU rules about tendering for same etc.


I addressed your point. As did the commission. We took an age to go about getting the 13 billion.
 

brughahaha

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You need to address the differences between those cases and the Apple cases.
No I dont ..... :roll:

Standard practice is that the money is collected held is escrow until a final decision .....

you've made abundantly clear you haven't one iota of the subject under discussion ...not one clue ...that just leaves trolling ...cheerio
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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more nasty Brussels stuff. bullying the little guys.
 

Wascurito

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I addressed your point. As did the commission. We took an age to go about getting the 13 billion.
Let's cut through the cr*p. You think that we should accept the EC decision unquestioningly and go after Apple for the money. That's fair enough.

However, the simple facts of the matter are that Apple are appealing the decision so we can't just take the money off them and spend it. Or they might win the appeal and we might find ourselves having to pay at least 13bn back in a few years time.

Hence the need for an escrow account. I don't accept that management of a 13bn euro escrow fund (with potential for variable and relative loss or gain) is some minor matter that can be sorted out quickly, I don't accept you have greater knowledge of this matter than Irish government officials about this matter and you did NOT address this point.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Let's cut through the cr*p. You think that we should accept the EC decision unquestioningly and go after Apple for the money. That's fair enough.

However, the simple facts of the matter are that Apple are appealing the decision so we can't just take the money off them and spend it. Or they might win the appeal and we might find ourselves having to pay at least 13bn back in a few years time.

Hence the need for an escrow account. I don't accept that management of a 13bn euro escrow fund (with potential for variable and relative loss or gain) is some minor matter that can be sorted out quickly, I don't accept you have greater knowledge of this matter than Irish government officials about this matter and you did NOT address this point.

This case is about the escrow, so stop trying to deflect to the wider case, which is irrelevant. We were too slow. Simple.
 

Nipper

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Let's cut through the cr*p. You think that we should accept the EC decision unquestioningly and go after Apple for the money. That's fair enough.

However, the simple facts of the matter are that Apple are appealing the decision so we can't just take the money off them and spend it. Or they might win the appeal and we might find ourselves having to pay at least 13bn back in a few years time.

Hence the need for an escrow account. I don't accept that management of a 13bn euro escrow fund (with potential for variable and relative loss or gain) is some minor matter that can be sorted out quickly, I don't accept you have greater knowledge of this matter than Irish government officials about this matter and you did NOT address this point.
What's more likely is 13 bn is a lot of money and instead of getting some international firm to provide an off the shelf account, we have to figure out how to swing the procurement process to benefit some of our friends.
 

Wascurito

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This case is about the escrow, so stop trying to deflect to the wider case, which is irrelevant. We were too slow. Simple.
LOL.....pretty much all of my post (the one you replied to) was about the escrow account.
 

Wascurito

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Personally, I think that there is much about the EC's original decision that wreaks of the late summer of 2016. Faced with the aftermath of Brexit and a resurgent far-right in Germany, Austria, France and the Netherlands, the EC needed to be seen to be thumping some populist tables to appeal to the malcontents in many European countries who want some scapegoats.

They knew that the Apple would appeal and that the Irish government would appeal, that this would take years and that in the meantime, the dust would hopefully settle. Much of the dust has settled. In that - at least - they were correct.
 

GDPR

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Just noticed this on a tweet and popped over to P.ie, but couldn't see any thread on it.

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/916972446372134913

The tweet includes a brief video which I can't see how to link to here, but there's a fuller on here...

[video]http://europa.eu/!TY88Hd[/video]

It appears the EU Commission has run out of patience with Ireland is now taking Ireland to court for failing to require Apple to pay its taxes.

Apparently Luxembourg is also to be taken to court for failing to collect tax from Amazon.

What now? Will Ireland now comply or will Dublin fight this in court?

Should Ireland accept now it must do this or do they have a chance of persuading the court that Apple does not owe it this money?

Apple owes Ireland a lot of money - I appreciate that the economic model has been based on low taxes for MNCs, but the billions Apple would be forced to pay to Ireland would surely provide a useful cushion and a means of investment to get Ireland off the dependence on MNCs and low coporation tax?
How can the EU enforce this if it is found in its favour? Will it invade Ireland?

Can't Ireland say it has an independent right to say what tax is paid by companies?

Sounds like sour grapes to me and the EU wants to end Ireland's advantages in having Apple's European HQ.

Note: I am not an economist, in case you don't know already.
 


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