EU common defence: Ireland attends Permanent Structured Co-operation meeting which agrees to launch in December

Congalltee

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EU common defence: Ireland attends Permanent Structured Co-operation meeting which agrees to launch in December

30 projects already on the table
Permanency
Agreed budget structure
Common capability against the evil empire
Unity in the face of Brexit

What’s the downside?

https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage_en/31832/Permanent Structured Cooperation on defence could be launched by end 2017

Denmark, Malta and Portigual could also join later.

Minister Paul Kehoe attends Foreign Affairs and Defence Council in Brussels
The Minister with Responsibility for Defence, Paul Kehoe, T.D. today (Monday, 13th November) attended the Foreign Affairs and Defence Ministers Council in Brussels. The meeting dealt with a range of ongoing developments in relation to the EU Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP). The agenda included discussions on the security and defence aspects of the EU’s Global Strategy on Foreign and Security Policy, including Permanent Structured Cooperation and the European Defence Fund and the priorities for civilian crisis management in CSDP. There was a discussion on EU/NATO Cooperation. It was followed by a meeting of the Steering Board of the European Defence Agency in Defence Ministers format.

PESCO is a Lisbon Treaty mechanism providing a framework for groups of EU Member States to come together and, on a project by project basis, jointly develop military crisis management capabilities for use in support of CSDP Operations. It is designed to provide the Union and its member States with greater efficiency and enhanced capabilities to enable the Union to respond more rapidly to major crises in support of international peace and security. The framework recognises the centrality of the UN in relation to international peace and security and the importance of multilateralism. It also recognises that Defence and defence expenditure remains a national prerogative and that PESCO participation has no implications for the specific defence policies of member States.

Commenting on the PESCO initiative, Minister Kehoe stated that: “PESCO can contribute to improve the capacity of the EU and member States to support international peace and security, both as EU and as troop contributors on UN mandated missions. It is also a means of enhancing interoperability and ensuring that our troops are equipped with the latest and best equipment and training."

Concluding, the Minister said: “Ireland has and continues to be a major contributor to EU operations and participates actively in all aspects of CSDP. We plan to remain at the centre of CSDP developments."
 


former wesleyan

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In reality I don't see us changing anything in terms of the DF.
Exactly. They've just privatised the Air Ambulance rather than upgrade or invest in the Air Corps so I don't see the DF being present in any capacity other than observers any time soon.
 

sparky42

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Exactly. They've just privatised the Air Ambulance rather than upgrade or invest in the Air Corps so I don't see the DF being present in any capacity other than observers any time soon.
I suppose it could depend on what's taken as taking part, I mean I could see them spinning the Maltese training we do as "jointness". As to the AC it's a fair point (I'd have preferred some of the HSE's budget got moved over to help the AC budget), how much is the HSE to pay for this new contract I wonder?
 

Catalpast

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In effect it puts us in tandem with NATO

Surely that in itself a breach of our Neutrality?

We have also shared these steps with the NATO Secretary General [Jens Stoltenberg]. As always, we have invited him to join our Defence Ministers' meeting, as I was joining the NATO Defence Ministers just a few days ago. He welcomed these steps and we discussed all the actions for cooperation that the European Union and NATO have developed in this last year....

at the same time, we have never developed such a strong cooperation between the European Union and NATO is the living proof of the fact that two things can go hand-in-hand and actually do.

Remarks by High Representative/Vice-President Federica Mogherini at the press conference following the Foreign Affairs Council

Brussels, 13 November 2017
https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/35545/remarks-high-representativevice-president-federica-mogherini-press-conference-following_en
 

sparky42

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In effect it puts us in tandem with NATO

Surely that in itself a breach of our Neutrality?
No it doesn't put us in "tandem with NATO" whatever that's meant to mean. Basically it means that NATO doesn't really give a flying feck about what's being proposed and won't unless/until serious monies start going into it (which they won't). Meanwhile so far what's been talked about is stuff that's more basic command and control stuff than anything else, unless you think improving roads/rail connections is somehow the end of the world...
 

Catalpast

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No it doesn't put us in "tandem with NATO" whatever that's meant to mean. Basically it means that NATO doesn't really give a flying feck about what's being proposed and won't unless/until serious monies start going into it (which they won't). Meanwhile so far what's been talked about is stuff that's more basic command and control stuff than anything else, unless you think improving roads/rail connections is somehow the end of the world...
You clearly don't really understand what is happening here....
 

lostexpectation

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30 projects already on the table
Permanency
Agreed budget structure
Common capability against the evil empire
Unity in the face of Brexit

What’s the downside?

https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage_en/31832/Permanent Structured Cooperation on defence could be launched by end 2017

It also recognises that Defence and defence expenditure remains a national prerogative and that PESCO participation has no implications for the specific defence policies of member States.
.
the list of "ambitious and more binding common commitments"

Defence cooperation: 23 member states sign joint notification on the Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) - Consilium


so recognises defence is a nation perogative but also binds to commitments (if we sign up)

huh?
 

sparky42

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This will not end well.
What we might actually be forced to spend something to deal with the funding issues that we have even for a force as limited as we currently have... Yeah not actually worried if it means we start dealing with systemic problems.

But don't worry your little head, we won't and everyone will ignore it.
 

Clanrickard

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In effect it puts us in tandem with NATO
If it means our Mickey Mouse neutrality confined to the dust bin of history then good.
 

Catalpast

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We will see PESCO/NATO bases here eventually....

- after all our military forces are so minuscule and not exactly equipped for anything other than light peacekeeping duties

- what else could they need us for...
 

sparky42

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We will see PESCO/NATO bases here eventually....

- after all our military forces are so minuscule and not exactly equipped for anything other than light peacekeeping duties

- what else could they need us for...
You know what's funny, on other threads you and others declare that defence spending is pointless as we're basically on a Western lake and nothing can get to us/harm us/attack us without going through other nations first. AND YET you're first thought is "EU bases because our forces aren't equipped"... Which is it? Are we in a strategic safe zone that means spending on things like Jets isn't needed, or are we not and the EU has to move in to do so...

Here's the reality, THEY DON'T NEED US. They are most likely laughing their asses off, we are joining because it's something the Government has decided to do so, not because the EU said "Hey Paddy, we really need you DF for something..."
 

sparky42

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If it means our Mickey Mouse neutrality confined to the dust bin of history then good.
We'll still have the "Triple Lock", so fine upstanding nations like Russia and China, and Trump get to decide on Irish FP instead, isn't that so much better...:rolleyes:
 

Catalpast

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You know what's funny, on other threads you and others declare that defence spending is pointless as we're basically on a Western lake and nothing can get to us/harm us/attack us without going through other nations first. AND YET you're first thought is "EU bases because our forces aren't equipped"... Which is it? Are we in a strategic safe zone that means spending on things like Jets isn't needed, or are we not and the EU has to move in to do so...

Here's the reality, THEY DON'T NEED US. They are most likely laughing their asses off, we are joining because it's something the Government has decided to do so, not because the EU said "Hey Paddy, we really need you DF for something..."
I think you must be confusing me with someone else....
 

forest

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Based on a press release earlier we are not part of this along with Portugal and Malta
Other neutral/non aligned countries are ie Austria, Finland and Sweden
 


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