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EU court favours the UK over child benefit residency rule. Could this judgement influence the UK IN/OUT vote?

realistic1

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EU court favours the UK over child benefit residency rule. Could this judgement influence the UK IN/OUT vote?

The European Union’s top court has ruled that Britain can deny family allowances to foreign workers with children living abroad. This is a very welcome move in my opinion, and Ireland should now also make similar moves.

One wonders did the upcoming Referendum play on the Judges minds during deliberations??

EU court backs Britain over child benefit residency rule
 


Florence

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Why, in the light of this did Ireland not refuse to pay child benefit to the children of EU workers here but whose children were living outside Ireland? Our spineless govt said we had to pay it and did not dare refuse and have the matter settled in court as the UK did.

Will the current govt now stop payment? I very much doubt it.
 

PBP voter

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Too little too late.

The UK is on the road to freedom. Fair play to them.

Hope we can do the same.
 

Congalltee

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The British public think that 10% of its social protection budget is sent overseas (the actual figure is less than 0.3%).
Had the court decision gone the other way; it would be big news.
 

Half Nelson

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Why, in the light of this did Ireland not refuse to pay child benefit to the children of EU workers here but whose children were living outside Ireland? Our spineless govt said we had to pay it and did not dare refuse and have the matter settled in court as the UK did.

Will the current govt now stop payment? I very much doubt it.
If this ruling applies to Ireland then our govt. should not only cease payments immediately but should also sue the Commission for the return of these funds.
 

realistic1

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If this ruling applies to Ireland then our govt. should not only cease payments immediately but should also sue the Commission for the return of these funds.
The Politicians that run this State have no interest in annoying the EU, mainly because they and their family and friends are benefiting from EU spoils.
 

realistic1

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Why, in the light of this did Ireland not refuse to pay child benefit to the children of EU workers here but whose children were living outside Ireland? Our spineless govt said we had to pay it and did not dare refuse and have the matter settled in court as the UK did.

Will the current govt now stop payment? I very much doubt it.
So will any Politician raise the prospect of saving the Irish taxpayers millions in benefits? or are the Political class willing to continue with this waste?
 

edifice.

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The European Union’s top court has ruled that Britain can deny family allowances to foreign workers with children living abroad. This is a very welcome move in my opinion, and Ireland should now also make similar moves.

One wonders did the upcoming Referendum play on the Judges minds during deliberations??

EU court backs Britain over child benefit residency rule
The point is though that it's still a foreign court dictating laws for the British. That's what the Leave argument is about, not the merit or not of those laws.
 

realistic1

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The point is though that it's still a foreign court dictating laws for the British. That's what the Leave argument is about, not the merit or not of those laws.
Either way this judgement is another endorsement of the leave campaign.
 

sondagefaux

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The judgement doesn't say quite what the newspaper report says.

EU citizens who have the right to reside in the UK must still be treated on the same basis as UK citizens.

EU citizens who do not have the right to reside in the UK can have access to certain benefits, child benefit and child tax credits (a form of top-up income available to individuals and families on low incomes with children in the UK) in this instance, curtailed or denied.

The conditions under which citizens of EU member states have the right to reside for more than three months in another EU member state are set out below:

Directive 2004/38/EC

8 Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC (OJ 2004 L 158, p. 77, and corrigenda at OJ 2004 L 229, p. 35, OJ 2005 L 30, p. 27, and OJ 2005 L 197, p. 34) provides in Article 7, headed ‘Right of residence for more than three months’:

‘1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they:

(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or

(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and

– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence; or

(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).

...

3. For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who is no longer a worker or self-employed person shall retain the status of worker or self-employed person in the following circumstances:

(a) he/she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident;

(b) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed for more than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office;

(c) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after completing a fixed-term employment contract of less than a year or after having become involuntarily unemployed during the first twelve months and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office. In this case, the status of worker shall be retained for no less than six months;

(d) he/she embarks on vocational training. Unless he/she is involuntarily unemployed, the retention of the status of worker shall require the training to be related to the previous employment.

...’

9 By virtue of Article 14(1) to (3) of Directive 2004/38:

‘1. Union citizens and their family members shall have the right of residence provided for in Article 6, as long as they do not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State.

2. Union citizens and their family members shall have the right of residence provided for in Articles 7, 12 and 13 as long as they meet the conditions set out therein.

In specific cases where there is a reasonable doubt as to whether a Union citizen or his/her family members satisfies the conditions set out in Articles 7, 12 and 13, Member States may verify if these conditions are fulfilled. This verification shall not be carried out systematically.

3. An expulsion measure shall not be the automatic consequence of a Union citizen’s or his or her family member’s recourse to the social assistance system of the host Member State.’

10 Article 15(1) of Directive 2004/38 states:

‘The procedures provided for by Articles 30 and 31 shall apply by analogy to all decisions restricting free movement of Union citizens and their family members on grounds other than public policy, public security or public health.’

11 Article 24 of Directive 2004/38, headed ‘Equal treatment’, provides:

‘1. Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law, all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host Member State shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of the Treaty. The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have the right of residence or permanent residence.

2. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, the host Member State shall not be obliged to confer entitlement to social assistance during the first three months of residence or, where appropriate, the longer period provided for in Article 14(4)(b), nor shall it be obliged, prior to acquisition of the right of permanent residence, to grant maintenance aid for studies, including vocational training, consisting in student grants or student loans to persons other than workers, self-employed persons, persons who retain such status and members of their families.’
So the UK's habitual residency test, which includes a requirement that citizens of other EU member states must have a right to reside in the UK, is legal under EU law.

As is Ireland's habitual residency test, used to assess eligibility for certain benefits.

Ireland and the UK both operate habitual residency tests. Both are legal under EU law.

This ruling merely confirms that what both Ireland and the UK have been doing for some time is within EU law and, in fact, has been provided for in EU law for quite a long time (this judgement cites EU case law from 1999 in support of habitual residency tests).

Here's the full text of the judgement:

CURIA - Documents
 

sondagefaux

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If this ruling applies to Ireland then our govt. should not only cease payments immediately but should also sue the Commission for the return of these funds.
It can't sue the Commission. It's an Irish government decision to provide universal child benefit to everyone who has a child or children of the appropriate age.

The EU Commission didn't force Ireland to provide this benefit. If there was no Child Benefit there would be no issue.

The judgement says that it is open to the UK to require citizens of other EU member states who claim child benefit and child tax credits to establish a legal right of residency in the UK (as defined in EU law) for the purposes of assessing eligibility.
 

sondagefaux

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As Columbo says, one last thing:

A challenge to the UK's right to deny some EU migrants child benefit and child tax credits has been rejected by European judges.

The European Court of Justice said it was lawful for the UK to withhold family benefits to EU migrants who were not working if they did not have the right to reside in the UK.

...

The ruling will have no direct impact on the welfare changes secured by David Cameron as part of his renegotiations of the UK's EU membership - which concluded in February.

The prime minister had wanted a complete ban on migrants sending child benefit abroad but had to compromise after some eastern European states rejected that and also insisted that existing claimants should continue to receive the full payment.

As a result, child benefit for the children of EU migrants living overseas will now be paid at a rate based on the cost of living in their home country - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36526158

In other words, EU migrant parents who have children that don't live in the UK will continue to receive child benefit in almost all circumstances, except where the parents do not have a right to reside in the UK under EU law (which applies mainly to economically inactive people, except jobseekers in given circumstances).

Everyone else who gets child benefit for kids living in other EU countries will continue to get them, payable at the same rate as paid for kids living in the UK for current claimants at present, payable at different rates depending on the other EU countries' cost of living from 2020.

The parents of children who live in EU countries that have a higher cost of living than the UK will therefore be able to get a higher rate of child benefit than payable for children living in the UK.
 

im axeled

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Why, in the light of this did Ireland not refuse to pay child benefit to the children of EU workers here but whose children were living outside Ireland? Our spineless govt said we had to pay it and did not dare refuse and have the matter settled in court as the UK did.

Will the current govt now stop payment? I very much doubt it.
think of all the spoofing the pc crowd would come up with, never mind the other concerned quango's
 

storybud1

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Of course the massive amount we spend on housing and social welfare for long term unemployed non-EU residents will never be discussed either.

I know the Latvian government is looking to tax Latvian people living and working in the EU as their youth population problems are getting worse, this will be a story in the coming months,

The gold rush North Western Europe provided for the last 20 years simply cannot continue, something for nothing wasn't on any economic books I ever read,,
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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The judgement doesn't say quite what the newspaper report says.

EU citizens who have the right to reside in the UK must still be treated on the same basis as UK citizens.

EU citizens who do not have the right to reside in the UK can have access to certain benefits, child benefit and child tax credits (a form of top-up income available to individuals and families on low incomes with children in the UK) in this instance, curtailed or denied.

The conditions under which citizens of EU member states have the right to reside for more than three months in another EU member state are set out below:



So the UK's habitual residency test, which includes a requirement that citizens of other EU member states must have a right to reside in the UK, is legal under EU law.

As is Ireland's habitual residency test, used to assess eligibility for certain benefits.

Ireland and the UK both operate habitual residency tests. Both are legal under EU law.

This ruling merely confirms that what both Ireland and the UK have been doing for some time is within EU law and, in fact, has been provided for in EU law for quite a long time (this judgement cites EU case law from 1999 in support of habitual residency tests).

Here's the full text of the judgement:

CURIA - Documents
It can't sue the Commission. It's an Irish government decision to provide universal child benefit to everyone who has a child or children of the appropriate age.

The EU Commission didn't force Ireland to provide this benefit. If there was no Child Benefit there would be no issue.

The judgement says that it is open to the UK to require citizens of other EU member states who claim child benefit and child tax credits to establish a legal right of residency in the UK (as defined in EU law) for the purposes of assessing eligibility.
As Columbo says, one last thing:



European court backs UK curbs on child benefit rights - BBC News

In other words, EU migrant parents who have children that don't live in the UK will continue to receive child benefit in almost all circumstances, except where the parents do not have a right to reside in the UK under EU law (which applies mainly to economically inactive people, except jobseekers in given circumstances).

Everyone else who gets child benefit for kids living in other EU countries will continue to get them, payable at the same rate as paid for kids living in the UK for current claimants at present, payable at different rates depending on the other EU countries' cost of living from 2020.

The parents of children who live in EU countries that have a higher cost of living than the UK will therefore be able to get a higher rate of child benefit than payable for children living in the UK.


Way to kill a thread.

Very informative - thanks.
 

cobhguy

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Why, in the light of this did Ireland not refuse to pay child benefit to the children of EU workers here but whose children were living outside Ireland? Our spineless govt said we had to pay it and did not dare refuse and have the matter settled in court as the UK did.

Will the current govt now stop payment? I very much doubt it.
Because it only happened yesterday.
 

General Urko

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it's the EU for the big boys only!
 


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