EU offensive to tax giant tech companies called “equalisation tax” .. presented next week to the 28

Voluntary

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venusian

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France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants





So:

1. SHOULD Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

2. WILL Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

3. Does this “equalisation tax” pose a problem with this apple tax case Ireland has IF Ireland supports it?

Over to you guys ..

( A tip to read behind FT paywall. - nothing dodgy!

Copy this title into google search - France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants - First link that appears, click it, taa daa .. it opens all article )
Yes all the way ( and hopefully it will enhance Ireland's ability to collect the billions it is owed from Apple) and if any scumbag treasonous supporting of tax dodging FFG politician thinks otherwise they should be hung from a lamppost
 

Patslatt1

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France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants





So:

1. SHOULD Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

2. WILL Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

3. Does this “equalisation tax” pose a problem with this apple tax case Ireland has IF Ireland supports it?

Over to you guys ..

( A tip to read behind FT paywall. - nothing dodgy!

Copy this title into google search - France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants - First link that appears, click it, taa daa .. it opens all article )
To show the havoc the tax would cause intellectual property companies, look at patented discoveries in computer chips such as the low power chip that powers most mobile phones. Since marginal costs of selling extra shipments of chips to phone manufacturers are very low, in economic terms most of the profits are generated by the patented chip in the UK where the research was done. To the extent that corporation tax in a given country would be levied based on the country's share of total international sales, the tax would fail to recognise this economic profit and tax a distorted allocation of profits.

To avoid this country tax, the chip maker could sell its chips to intermediary companies and thereby capture most of the economic profit within the UK.The intermediary companies would be taxed on profits related to marketing and distribution of chips in the countries taxing sales but the profits taxed would be a fraction of the chip company's profit. Of course, this type of reorganisation of marketing would prove very difficult for many multinationals.
 
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Patslatt1

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From the comments at end of that article - BillH:
EU countries are free to tax multinationals based on their share of sales, assets and workforce numbers but such taxation can create economic distortions:
-When profits on patents such as computer chips and prescription drugs don't need extensive marketing, obviously most of the profits are attributable to the country where the research occured, not where sales are made
-Countries would have incentives to keep loss making businesses alive to levy taxes based on sales, assets and workforce numbers
-To avoid the latter taxes, many multinationals would restructure their businesses, complicating complicated tax regulations further.
 

Sync

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So:

1. SHOULD Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

2. WILL Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

3. Does this “equalisation tax” pose a problem with this apple tax case Ireland has IF Ireland supports it?

Over to you guys ..
1. No
2. No, but it won't come to a veto. Ireland and other countries who realise this would be the thin end of the wedge will see it dies on the vine.
3. No, even if it went through it wouldn't affect the past.
 

JCR

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Time for Ireland to change its economic model. However these companies will simply move outside of Europe - or perhaps the UK will offer them 0% taxation. It doesn't suit the EU for Ireland to go under (again) so there would probably be a scaled application of any new laws should they pass. Long term that would suit Ireland, we are living in dreamland if we think these companies are here indefinitely.
 

Sync

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People are often keen to throw out "just change your model" without following up with what that model could look like.

Ireland has managed to differentiate itself in the international market by subsidisation and taxation policies designed to bring in Tech, aerospace and pharma. We've then got a trained workforce who speak English who can deliver these three things well. It's a policy that's been remarkably successful, despite the fact that we screwed up many other areas of public policy.

So what model should we go back to? The ones we followed for the 80 years of desolance that preceded the 90s?
 

JCR

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People are often keen to throw out "just change your model" without following up with what that model could look like.

Ireland has managed to differentiate itself in the international market by subsidisation and taxation policies designed to bring in Tech, aerospace and pharma. We've then got a trained workforce who speak English who can deliver these three things well. It's a policy that's been remarkably successful, despite the fact that we screwed up many other areas of public policy.

So what model should we go back to? The ones we followed for the 80 years of desolance that preceded the 90s?
Well relying on what we do now would not be very wise. We could possibly try and go for a Silicon Valley type hub and develop a critical mass of work being done here so that companies would be willing to pay a little more tax and still stay here. We will also have to maybe be even more creative with incentives to do this. Companies can pay tax here, we offer infrastructure in return.

There are also other opportunities to explore, particularly in food technology. The well trained workforce thing I'm not so sure about, Google etc is full of people from all over Europe. I'm sure they would be as happy in say, Lisbon. You don't go back to models that haven't worked previously of course, though I know you are just being glib.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Well relying on what we do now would not be very wise. We could possibly try and go for a Silicon Valley type hub and develop a critical mass of work being done here so that companies would be willing to pay a little more tax and still stay here. We will also have to maybe be even more creative with incentives to do this. Companies can pay tax here, we offer infrastructure in return.

There are also other opportunities to explore, particularly in food technology. The well trained workforce thing I'm not so sure about, Google etc is full of people from all over Europe. I'm sure they would be as happy in say, Lisbon. You don't go back to models that haven't worked previously of course, though I know you are just being glib.
Every spoofing politician in the world is pushing building of an alternate to ,partner with or miniature version of silicon valley. While small scale analogous activities are certainly achievable, and will develop organically, it is a reflection of ignorance that such proselytizing ignores the global talent & resource pool that the valley pulls from across both the people working there, the people starting & managing companies and the private capital that underwrites these firms. It also ignores the fact that , even in the valley, the wider economic benefit is questionable in the extreme. A cleaner in Apple is no better off than a cleaner in a sofa sales office. While an operator for Pfizer, resident in cork , NJ or Singapore, i infinitely better off than an operator for Foxconn....and meanwhile Facebook dont have any "operators" at all.

Regarding Food technology , Ireland is certainly well positioned in this regard BUT a couple of things
1) Even amongst Irish MNCs in the sector the ability to develop & grow end to end value added chains or brands is only in its relative infancy .....look to the dutch with their unilevers etc. However they are catching up
2) despite the fact that people believe we have a unique natural resource the tax model is as important in this sector as in all others. Hence Brexit threatens, for example, the production of cheese strings in Charleville for the Uk market....if these are tariffed at Holyhead, why wouldnt Kerry move production to the west country? Granted an IP based tax structure would still be do-able but that would be no benefit to the factory workers in cork.....

Ultimately we , and I am not resident there currently but am irish, are a small island nation with a limited talent pool, a decent level of work force skill, some natural resources......an additional benefit we have is a relative flexibility of being small and politicians being able to prioritize things at a national level ( the apocryphal 10 jobs in Bahola type thing....) that would barely reach town or city level in the US etc........however against this we must recognize at all times that the small pool of local talent and the geographical isolation are negative contributors to any irish based companies P&L relative to one based in the US, on continental Europe ( or even in in-EU UK) or in one of the other globalized international trading jurisdictions ( Singapore .....the gulf if they ever get the geoplitics sorted etc.)....The tax regime is inherent to over coming this negative factors as otherwise, even in the case f domestic companies , the pull to off shore or not arrive in ireland at all is too strong.........

Larger economies support all this in other ways...in teh US it is via keeping labor laws lax, turning a lind eye to skilled & unskilled immigration and encouraging the development of a fantastically well funded ( but inaccesible) third level system, and then throwng bones to coal , oil etc. in remote states.........in Europe its via the BIG industries of metal bashing, agriculture ( our buddies france) and finance.....we are small and actually want, I think, a european social model, so neither of these suits us precisely...
 

Sync

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Well relying on what we do now would not be very wise. We could possibly try and go for a Silicon Valley type hub and develop a critical mass of work being done here so that companies would be willing to pay a little more tax and still stay here. We will also have to maybe be even more creative with incentives to do this. Companies can pay tax here, we offer infrastructure in return.
I'd agree with all of that, but it's really just expanding on the current model than a new one. The tax model has attracted data centres to the country, as well as EU covering bases of operations. If we were sitting here and Facebook's input to the economy was simply 2 guys who's job it was to process EU earnings, we could question its efficacy. But they employ 1500 people at an average of €120k a year. That's 54 million in income tax a year.

I'd like to have seen more infra, but we've been bitten by that with Dell and AST.

The current model works for the country. While we should seek to enter other areas (I love the idea of us getting more alternative protein sources for instance), but that costs money. Silicon Valley hub efforts like in Israel and Singapore carry risk and loss. The Irish public won't understand let alone agree with the idea of govt money of say 3 million being spent on an app that's eventually abandoned, and that being seen as just a cost of business.
 

PC Principle

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Yep, isn't it wonderful being at the heart of Europe with all our friends around us!
Shure, "Ireland's at the heart of Europe, and even more independent in it."
 

Trainwreck

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I'd agree with all of that, but it's really just expanding on the current model than a new one. The tax model has attracted data centres to the country, as well as EU covering bases of operations. If we were sitting here and Facebook's input to the economy was simply 2 guys who's job it was to process EU earnings, we could question its efficacy. But they employ 1500 people at an average of €120k a year. That's 54 million in income tax a year.

I'd like to have seen more infra, but we've been bitten by that with Dell and AST.

The current model works for the country. While we should seek to enter other areas (I love the idea of us getting more alternative protein sources for instance), but that costs money. Silicon Valley hub efforts like in Israel and Singapore carry risk and loss. The Irish public won't understand let alone agree with the idea of govt money of say 3 million being spent on an app that's eventually abandoned, and that being seen as just a cost of business.

You think it is a positive thing that we might have lots of high paying jobs, whose existence depends on nothing more than dodgy tax dealings we allow their employer to practice in Ireland?

Interesting...


 

firefly123

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Kite gets flown.

Politics.ie loses its mind.

With the UK leaving ireland is now an even more attractive prospect for FDI
we understand what the UK seemed incapable of understanding. Be in the EU and make it work for you rather than pull a strop and walk out.
 

Notachipanoaktree

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France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants





So:

1. SHOULD Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

2. WILL Ireland support this new proposed “equalisation tax” for tech companies?

3. Does this “equalisation tax” pose a problem with this apple tax case Ireland has IF Ireland supports it?

Over to you guys ..

( A tip to read behind FT paywall. - nothing dodgy!

Copy this title into google search - France drives EU tax blitz on revenues of US tech giants - First link that appears, click it, taa daa .. it opens all article )
No
No
Yes
 

Mad as Fish

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Well relying on what we do now would not be very wise. We could possibly try and go for a Silicon Valley type hub and develop a critical mass of work being done here so that companies would be willing to pay a little more tax and still stay here. We will also have to maybe be even more creative with incentives to do this. Companies can pay tax here, we offer infrastructure in return.

There are also other opportunities to explore, particularly in food technology. The well trained workforce thing I'm not so sure about, Google etc is full of people from all over Europe. I'm sure they would be as happy in say, Lisbon. You don't go back to models that haven't worked previously of course, though I know you are just being glib.
I'm not entirely convinced that Google needs all those thousands of people working for them, I'm sure there is a lot of internal empire building and BS jobs. If their profits suddenly shrunk from vast to merely big I don't doubt that many of these 'colleagues' will find themselves back on the street looking for employment.
 

Atlantean

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The Poster Grzegorz Kolodziej on David McWilliams | The website of economist, author and broadcaster, David McWilliams blog ] is a polymath & polyglot with special insight into Germany amongst a myriad of other topics ;

He often reminds readers that Germany facilitates much more tax-avoidance policy than Irish State does.
Now, ain't that very interesting.

By the way,
WHAT CREDIBILITY DOES Leo-"prefers early Risers"- Varadakar's PROMISE THAT SS Photo ID Card + associated SS Databases WILL NOT BECOME "COMPULSORY" Photo ID Card HAVE WHEN ONE REFLECTS THAT now Fianna Fail-again Leader Me-hole Martin pleaded with Irish State electorate to vote for Nice & Lisbon Referenda in the EU-agreeable way because he got "Cast-Iron" Guarantees from his buddy the Freemason Mr. Sarkozy that Irish State's Low Corporation Tax would never be in jeopardy ?

Will Pfizers depart coRk now to disappoint Leo in his chronological-fetish for Early Risers ?
 
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