EU - related events after Brexit ref, up to triggering of Article 50



blokesbloke

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When has Britain ever had to do without either the colonies or the EU?

When it lost the last of the colonies in the 1960s it had to call the IMF in less than a decade.
Well if not having to call in the IMF is the goal then membership of the EU is hardly going to prevent it, is it?

Ask the Greeks... or the Irish...
 

blokesbloke

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Actually, I don't. As someone who goes there once a month at least on business, and who lived there for several years, I have nothing but concern for the UK and its people.
Laudable, but you seem to have less concern about democracy in Britain.
 

blokesbloke

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I'd love to see the reaction if we'd taken the Presidency.

We'd be accused of hypocrisy.

The UK cannot win when it comes to the EU. If we stay we're whiners who always object to everything, if we leave we're deserters who should have stayed and worked for reform (of course, when we did that it was called "whining").

That is why we voted to leave.

I am astonished at the complaining that's happened since from the same people who have been moaning that the British should either stop moaning or leave ever since we joined.

It should have been their fondest wish to see us depart - and it was until we actually did it!
 

GDPR

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I'd love to see the reaction if we'd taken the Presidency.

We'd be accused of hypocrisy.

The UK cannot win when it comes to the EU. If we stay we're whiners who always object to everything, if we leave we're deserters who should have stayed and worked for reform (of course, when we did that it was called "whining").

That is why we voted to leave.

I am astonished at the complaining that's happened since from the same people who have been moaning that the British should either stop moaning or leave ever since we joined.

It should have been their fondest wish to see us depart - and it was until we actually did it!
The other thing is that the UK was and is our biggest ally in the EU. A good deal for the UK is a good deal for Ireland, as our closest country, physically, in terms of trade, migration, culturally etc. We need to use all our skills to get the EU to agree a good deal, not poo pooing the democratic decision that the UK has made.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
May doesn't have to adhere to any timeline proposed by Merkel. If Merkel and Hollande want Article 50 triggered at a mutually convenient time then May should extract negotiation concessions for any such agreement.

It would be daft for the UK to just agree to any timeline Berlin or Paris tried to impose.
 

Spanner Island

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The UK may well find itself in the position some suggested before the vote... i.e. out of the EU with no influence on it while at the same time failing to realise many of the bogus promises that were made mainly by the 'Leave' campaign...

Brexit may well mean Brexit... but then it's become obvious since the vote that nobody has a clear vision of what that is and that there are copious versions of Brexit...

Bizarre stuff...
 

statsman

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The UK may well find itself in the position some suggested before the vote... i.e. out of the EU with no influence on it while at the same time failing to realise many of the bogus promises that were made mainly by the 'Leave' campaign...

Brexit may well mean Brexit... but then it's become obvious since the vote that nobody has a clear vision of what that is and that there are copious versions of Brexit...

Bizarre stuff...
Well, the PM who called the vote couldn't be seen to be planning for a loss. The leaders of the Leave campaign were a mixed bunch, too mixed to get together to plan anything. The people who voted Leave really didn't care about a plan, they were voting against a tabloid distortion of reality. And so, we are where we are, so to speak.
 

Peppermint

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Well Brexit can't happen for two years after the Article is invoked, so it was never going to be an immediate thing.

I don't especially like the delay but it's several months, I can live with it.

It seems sensible to extract ourselves on practical day-to-day matters even before it's invoked if we're leaving anyway.

We've been in the EU for 43 years, it's not a simple process to change the myriad of laws, directives and regulations incorporated into British law via the EU over that time period.



I accept it takes time to get out of this mess. But how much time does the UK want exactly?
4years? 10 years? 20 years? longer?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Well, the PM who called the vote couldn't be seen to be planning for a loss. The leaders of the Leave campaign were a mixed bunch, too mixed to get together to plan anything. The people who voted Leave really didn't care about a plan, they were voting against a tabloid distortion of reality. And so, we are where we are, so to speak.
As I have pointed out previously if the President of the US, the Prime Minister, the leader of the Opposition, the City and numerous commentators in the media couldn't convince the UK electorate to vote to remain in the EU I'd say their perception rests on more than tabloid distortions of reality.

It seems when you consider that line up indicating the electorate should vote to stay in the EU that there are perceptions at ground level that all of the above are not heeding.
 

Ex celt

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I accept it takes time to get out of this mess. But how much time does the UK want exactly?
4years? 10 years? 20 years? longer?
As long as it takes to screw the last pfennig out of the koontz who have been living the high life in Brussels at the expense of HM Treasury.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I accept it takes time to get out of this mess. But how much time does the UK want exactly?
4years? 10 years? 20 years? longer?
There is no sunset clause on the Brexit vote. If Germany and France had desired a clause on Article 50 saying it should be operated within a set time frame they should have sought for it to be put into the Lisbon agreement. I think they are regretting not doing so now but then they couldn't envisage anyone operating the clause anyway.
 

Peppermint

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You're right, how could one even conceive that Britain could govern itself.

Britain was Always governing itself, it signed up to some EU rules, but didn't sign up to many, always the UKs choice.
If they didn't like some EU rules (which ones?) blame the UK government that signed up to them, not the EU.
 

statsman

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As I have pointed out previously if the President of the US, the Prime Minister, the leader of the Opposition, the City and numerous commentators in the media couldn't convince the UK electorate to vote to remain in the EU I'd say their perception rests on more than tabloid distortions of reality.

It seems when you consider that line up indicating the electorate should vote to stay in the EU that there are perceptions at ground level that all of the above are not heeding.
Yes, there's also the visceral dislike of the Other.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Yes, there's also the visceral dislike of the Other.
Why does any explanation of the Brexit vote always involve massive generalisations which wouldn't be tolerated in any other sphere of argument because it would be deemed politically incorrect?

Ireland is far more insular than the UK is. The UK has been an international crossroads for centuries. It isn't Roscommon.
 

Ex celt

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The Eirevolk are jealous because they cannot quit or else Mrs Murkell will be very cross.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
It seems to me that there is this somewhat snooty attitude that says that if the working class in the UK decide they are pissed off at being ignored by their three main political parties, that because their motives may not be somehow as pure as the middle class that somehow their vote should be regarded as invalid?

Why is that?
 

gerhard dengler

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I accept it takes time to get out of this mess. But how much time does the UK want exactly?
4years? 10 years? 20 years? longer?
According to EU legislation there is no timeline stipulating when article 50 is to be triggered. The only timeline given is that once article 50 is triggered, there is a 2 year time frame for exit.
 


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