EU to take action against France?

Clanrickard

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It seems the expulsion of the Roma may have consequences for France after all.

EU threatens action against France - The Irish Times - Tue, Sep 14, 2010

One very angry Justice Commissioner it seems. She talks also of "fast tracking" proceedings against France.

"My patience is wearing thin. Enough is enough," Ms Reding told reporters at a briefing in Brussels, raising her voice and thumping the podium in frustration as she spoke.
Does anyone think the EU will go ahead with this? Will the French care?

Personally I think Sarkozy is a very annoying little twerp and I would delighted to see him get humi8liated by the ECJ for this racist stunt. Most French people back him on this so if the EU does take action this may be used to bolster support for his tough law and order image.
 


Trampas

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Yes, the treatment of the Roma is racist......but it is high time that we were allowed to differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable racism. [ Dons helmet].

If a mendicant ethnic group moves in bringing with it nothing but criminality and squalor then it should be possible to defend one's society and one's citizens against such an invasion. In this particular case it may even be a presidential duty.
 

Thac0man

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Hmmm, interesting. An uppety little EU autocrat could be in line for a slap methinks. Ms Reding seems to have forgotten entirely that she is addressing the elected government and president of a nation that in large part created the post she now holds. Sarko must be jumping up and down in his stack heels over this slight. What Eurocrat school of though believes that taking an insulting and indeed demeaning tone towards a Frenchman, anyone Frenchman let alone one with a Napolean complex is a good idea?

No one who was in France legally has been deported illegally. Yet the intimation here is that the liberal sensitivities of Eurocrats are superior to not only national law but agreed EU law? I have been of the opinion that the EUs take on the French expulsions of illegal migrants was akin to juggling hand grenades, but Ms Reding has just pulled all the pins out.

But she need not worry, its not as if Sarko is vengeful and petty:

There will be blood on the walls. When I come to power, we will hang them all from butchers' meat hooks."
... wonder who said that petunia
 

Wakeupcall

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Yes, the treatment of the Roma is racist......but it is high time that we were allowed to differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable racism. [ Dons helmet].

If a mendicant ethnic group moves in bringing with it nothing but criminality and squalor then it should be possible to defend one's society and one's citizens against such an invasion. In this particular case it may even be a presidential duty.
Agreed.
 

DeputyEdo

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Fecking EU.....France should be able to expel whomever they want from their country!!
 

CookieMonster

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France should tell them to get fecked.
They pretty much have:

French Europe Minister Pierre Lellouche said:
"La France est un grand pays souverain. On n'est pas à l'école (...) Je n'ai pas l'intention d'être traité, au nom de la France, comme un petit garçon. La France n'est pas devant un tribunal", a-t-il poursuivi.
Or
"France is a big sovereign state. We are not at school [...] I have no intention of being treated, on behalf of France, like a schoolboy. France is not standing before a tribunal"
Lellouche s'en prend vivement à l'UE sur le dossier des Roms - Monde - Nouvelobs.com

and
Le secrétaire d’Etat français s’en est également pris au rôle de l’institution de José Manuel Barroso. Selon l'article 17 du traité sur l'Union européenne, la Commission "veille à l'application des traités". "Le gardien des traités, c’est le peuple français", a pourtant lancé Pierre Lellouche.
or
The French secretary of state also challenged the role of the institution of José Manuel Barroso. Under Article 17 of the Treaty on European Union, the Commission "shall ensure the implementation of treaties." "The guardian of the treaties, the French people," said Pierre Lellouche.
Roms: Violentes critiques de Lellouche contre l?Union européenne | Institutions | L'Europe avec EurActiv.fr

Seems the French government are no different from Ireland in many respects, Will wax lyrical about the benefits of the EU when it suits them and rail against it likewise.
 

Clanrickard

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They pretty much have:
Seems the French government are no different from Ireland in many respects, Will wax lyrical about the benefits of the EU when it suits them and rail against it likewise.
Except the Irish shleeveens will tow the line in the end. The French won't. Whether you agree or disagree there is a good argument for saying the French broke EU law. The French Foreign Minister is saying France is a "big sovereign nation" so the intimation is if it was "small sovereign nation" they'd have to kow tow to Ms. Redding. If, and I stress if, France has breeched EU law and the ECJ finds it were so it would be a real test of the EU's mettle to impose sanctions on France.
 

Clanrickard

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Viva La France. If separate cultures which to be treated like separate states then currents must treat those states as invaders.
What's that in English?
 

Libero

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Yes, the treatment of the Roma is racist......but it is high time that we were allowed to differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable racism. [ Dons helmet].

If a mendicant ethnic group moves in bringing with it nothing but criminality and squalor then it should be possible to defend one's society and one's citizens against such an invasion. In this particular case it may even be a presidential duty.
Yeah, the problem is that the EU Treaties don't make that same distinction.

France has a right to expel illegal immigrants, including Roma. That's a right expressed in European law.

But like all legal measures, it's not meant to be enforced selectively, against particular racial groups.

The central government memo makes clear that the immigrant Roma population have been targetted as a matter of public policy, and with an eye on votes.

That also explains the waffle from the French state in response to today's news. They can't claim to be operating a general immigration policy that just happens to catch a lot of Roma; the memo shows they were pulling resources off general immigration enforcement in order to make a show of kicking out Roma.

If that's not discrimination based on ethnicity and nationality, I'm not sure what is.
 

Passer-by

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No one who was in France legally has been deported illegally.
That might not be the judgment of the ECJ.

Ms Reding would appear to have some grounds for taking action against France as can be seen here:

But the outburst of the Luxembourg politician was triggered by the revelation that all assurances given to her by French ministers were "openly contradicted" by three leaked documents issued by the French ministry of interior in which it advises police officers and local authorities to target Roma camps "with priority."

"The role of the commission as guardian of the [EU] treaties is made extremely difficult if we can no longer have confidence in the assurances given by two ministers in a formal meeting with two Commissioners and with around 15 senior officials on the table from both sides."

"This is not a minor offence in a situation of this importance. After 11 years of experience in the commission, I would even go further: This is a disgrace."

Following the publication of the initial orders, the French government on Monday issued new instructions, leaving out any reference to Roma, but Ms Reding indicated that she remained sceptical.
If the initial instructions issued were in line with EU law, there would presumably have been no reason to issue new instructions once the contents of the initial ones became public.

I suspect the French legal defence team might have a tough time defending this.
 

Thac0man

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I suspect the French legal defence team might have a tough time defending this.

I doubt it. Illegal camps containing illegal migrants. If they happen to be Roma is there a bar to identifying that fact at any point? Again no legal migrants have been repatriated illegally by the French authorities. If the EU has been late in dealing with an EU issue, that started and exists beyond the juresduciton of France, how is France responsible? The failing here seems to be the EUs.

Sarko should press for the opening of MEPs expences etc. Deliver reform and expose illegality where it festers most - at the heart of the EU parliment and commision.
 

sondagefaux

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Yes, the treatment of the Roma is racist......but it is high time that we were allowed to differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable racism. [ Dons helmet].

If a mendicant ethnic group moves in bringing with it nothing but criminality and squalor then it should be possible to defend one's society and one's citizens against such an invasion. In this particular case it may even be a presidential duty.
The Roma, by and large, are EU citizens and have the right to live in France, subject to certain restrictions.

Expelling an entire group of people because of the actions of some is illegal under EU law and international law.

AFAIK, the French actions are not expulsions since those being sent home agree to be sent home in exchange for some money.

However, if France, or any other EU country, simply expels all Roma in its territory, then it would be in breach of EU and international law.

Edit: if the information contained in the report linked to by Passer-by is correct, that's prima facie evidence that France has acted illegally.

BTW, the notion that the EU Commission wouldn't take France to the ECJ is simply not true.

France was taken to the EU courts 114 times between 2000 and 2004 and had record fines imposed for failure to properly enforce Common Fisheries Policy rules:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article543333.ece
 
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Libero

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Thac0man said:
I doubt it. Illegal camps containing illegal migrants. If they happen to be Roma is there a bar to identifying that fact at any point?
Can you see how it might be a problem when an EU member state chooses to enforce immigration law selectively against a particular group of illegal immigrants, singled out by their ethnic and national background?

And can you see how the memo in question suggests very strongly that's what the French state was doing?
 

Thac0man

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Can you see how it might be a problem when an EU member state chooses to enforce immigration law selectively against a particular group of illegal immigrants, singled out by their ethnic and national background?

And can you see how the memo in question suggests very strongly that's what the French state was doing?
Yet to see the memo in question. No link to it here unless I have missed it. But again there is no allegation that the French have actually deported anyone who was not breaking EU migration law. Taken from the 1st link:

Under EU law, Roma are free to move anywhere in the union and stay for up to three months. After that, they must have found work or be paying into a social security system. Many do not and are frequently marginalised in their host EU countries.
Now Reding has gone and compared the French action to that of the WWII Nazi regime. I mean... what???? Reding if anything is on a wing a prayer here. If she wishes to take the case forward she is going to have to justify her comments and/or agree that a judgement of wrong doing by France, in enforcing EU migration law, is in fact a validation of her Nazi comaprison. Pretty shocking stuff.

When the Irish government move on an illegal Irish Travaller camp are they carrying out an act of descrimination or enforcing the law? The precident that Reding seems determined to set here is extremely distasful, over wrought and indeed dangerous. France has done nothing wrong.
 

ManfredJudge

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The Heineken Cup is not known as that in France because of a French law banning alcohol advertisement. When told that EU law was been broken the EU were informed that France only does EU law when it suits.
 


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