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EU: Tory Europe plan is doomed


Ramon21

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David Cameron is heading for a confrontation with Europe after some of Britain's closest EU allies yesterday rejected out of hand key demands outlined by the Conservative leader this week.

Four more countries yesterday dismissed the Tories' new approach, in a direct rebuff to William Hague, who insisted that the party was not isolated after France's Europe minister accused the Conservatives of "castrating" Britain's position in the EU.

Europe ministers from Poland, the Netherlands and the Irish Republic – historically among the friendliest to Britain in the EU – as well as Spain, said Cameron would not achieve his demand to repatriate social and employment laws to Britain. His plans would need the agreement of all 27 leaders of the EU because they would involve rewriting the union's treaties.

Frans Timmermans, the Dutch centre- left Europe minister, told the Guardian the Tory plans would have a "paralysing effect on Europe … There is more chance of a snowball surviving hell than the EU restarting debates on treaty change."

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, will also reject Cameron's demands because she is "fed up" with negotiating European treaties, one of her key allies said. Elmar Brok, one of the most senior members of the European parliament from Merkel's CDU party, said: "She is fed up of constitutional debates which we have had for 10 years. We need to discuss the competitiveness of the EU and employment."
 

ibis

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Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, will also reject Cameron's demands because she is "fed up" with negotiating European treaties, one of her key allies said. Elmar Brok, one of the most senior members of the European parliament from Merkel's CDU party, said: "She is fed up of constitutional debates which we have had for 10 years. We need to discuss the competitiveness of the EU and employment."
Yeah...maybe not the best timing there. We've only had two years of debating about it and most of us are sick to the back teeth of it.
 
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People should ignore what Hague is stating as he is playing to Tory voters who may vote UKIP. He knows the position but needs to make statements like this to reassure them he will do something when he knows he can do nothing.
 

Clanrickard

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. We've only had two years of debating about it and most of us are sick to the back teeth of it.
We in Irieland had debate. There was no debate whatsoever in most countries. In fact few if any citizens of the nations in the EU could tell you what Lisbon is about.
 

setanta

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Other posters are right, there is no appetite at all within Europe to re-open institutional debates. From citizens to politicians, people want the EU to get on with the heavy-lifting work it needs to do on the economy and climate change, in particular. The Tories internal problems with their europhobes and UKIP are of little concern to the rest of Europe. Even if they win the next election in Britain they will find their European partners very unwilling to entertain their schemes.
 

forest

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We in Irieland had debate. There was no debate whatsoever in most countries. In fact few if any citizens of the nations in the EU could tell you what Lisbon is about.
the leaders of europe have debated it for nearly 9 years and there is appetite to reopen 15 year old treaties just to please the Conservatives (who signed up to most of them)
I am glad Ireland has stated it position and I hope it sticks to it
All the other 26 states need to say in one clear voice " ******************** of Dave"
 

hiker

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I feel he would be better off being completely honest about it and calling for a referandum of withdrawel from the EU.
He does not have to vote for a withdrawel but its probably better for the british to get this monkey off their back.

In my opinion the majority in favour of EU participation is similar to our own, about 70/30 in favour. the problem is all the loudmouths are on the anti-EU side. We know this also from experiance.

I reckon its a put up or shut up situation that is required now.
 

Ramon21

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I feel he would be better off being completely honest about it and calling for a referandum of withdrawel from the EU.
He does not have to vote for a withdrawel but its probably better for the british to get this monkey off their back.

In my opinion the majority in favour of EU participation is similar to our own, about 70/30 in favour. the problem is all the loudmouths are on the anti-EU side. We know this also from experiance.

I reckon its a put up or shut up situation that is required now.
I agree, the anti-eu side is just much more active.
The most pro-eu people are just normal people, don't going round the net posting.
 

forest

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I agree hiker
I heard someone on Newsnight saying that they feel this will happen
It seems to be acknowledged by those of sane minds (even if they do support the tories) tjat this renegotiation of powers is a none runner
Michael Portilo said the same thing on This Week Last night

The only question is will be an all in or all out referendum
 

Clanrickard

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seabhcan

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Germany and France 'will block David Cameron's plan for a new EU treaty' | World news | The Observer

In a blow to the prime minister, who has pledged to renegotiate UK membership before calling an in/out referendum in 2017, both Germany and France are now coming out against opening up the EU rulebook again in the timescale envisaged by Cameron.
So... Cameron isn't going to get a 'looser ties' option by referendum d-day in 2017. This may mean they will have a straight in-out vote.

Interestingly, if they do end up getting some minor treaty change, we over here may hold a veto!

Some, like Ireland and perhaps France, would have to hold referendums.
Wouldn't that be fun.
 

SilverSpurs

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Germany and France 'will block David Cameron's plan for a new EU treaty' | World news | The Observer



So... Cameron isn't going to get a 'looser ties' option by referendum d-day in 2017. This may mean they will have a straight in-out vote.

Interestingly, if they do end up getting some minor treaty change, we over here may hold a veto!



Wouldn't that be fun.
David Cameron has put himself on one hell of a pedestal. If he comes back from Brussels empty handed then how can he credibly argue for a Yes. Michael Portillo covered this point in depth on a week in politics with Andrew Neil last year.
 

seabhcan

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David Cameron has put himself on one hell of a pedestal. If he comes back from Brussels empty handed then how can he credibly argue for a Yes. Michael Portillo covered this point in depth on a week in politics with Andrew Neil last year.
He'll probably lose the election in 2017 so it gets him off the hook. Should he win it - he'll probably have to resign over his failure to win an EU treaty.
 

SilverSpurs

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He'll probably lose the election in 2017 so it gets him off the hook. Should he win it - he'll probably have to resign over his failure to win an EU treaty.
Governments are always in the dumps mid term. Labour were even furher behind and still came within a whisker (Gordon Browne's bigoted lady) of hanging on. It will become clear that Labour have no alternative to austerity and I expect the Tories will get in by themselves with a modest majority. In a 2017 referendum you could well have constitutional convention suspended to allow anti-EU ministers to campaign for a No, much like in 1975 when anti-EEC Labour ministers were permitted to campaign for a No. Whatever the results Cameron can say he settled the issue for a generation.
 

Ren84

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Cameron is a massive hypocrite. He berated Salmon for choosing 2014 for the Scottish independence vote, arguing it should be held immediately. He also criticised the idea of the SNP wanting three options on the ballot, independence, devo max or status quo. YET, that is precisely what Cameron wants to do now with his EU referendum. a vote for withdrawal, more powers from Brussels, or stay put with no change. The nauseating double standards of the British conservatives really is outstanding.
 

Analyzer

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Frans Timmermans, the Dutch centre- left Europe minister, told the Guardian the Tory plans would have a "paralysing effect on Europe … There is more chance of a snowball surviving hell than the EU restarting debates on treaty change."
Should we ask the unemployed in Spain what they think ? Or the protestors surrounding the Parlaiment in Athens ?

The British Tories starting a debate about what is no longer working, are hardly what is paralysing EU rope.....

Oh...of course....just remembered....the people must not be consulted on such matters, unless it is unavoidable.
 

A view from England

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Ren84

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Should we ask the unemployed in Spain what they think ? Or the protestors surrounding the Parlaiment in Athens ?

The British Tories starting a debate about what is no longer working, are hardly what is paralysing EU rope.....

Oh...of course....just remembered....the people must not be consulted on such matters, unless it is unavoidable.

Meanwhile, the plotting continues.
Tories build secret alliance with Eurosceptics behind Merkel's back - Telegraph
I'm sure she's terrified. :lol:
 

Clanrickard

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