EU Warships

He3

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As has been pointed out upthread, if there is any dramatisation about the story, you can thank RTÉ and the rest of the world media for it.

Do they still sell Andrews Liver Salts btw? Some good ol' ad hominem posters could benefit :)
 


He3

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Bobert

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Damn it, claim the credit, see if we can get on the wireless tomorrow or something over it!
 

ibis

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As has been pointed out upthread, if there is any dramatisation about the story, you can thank RTÉ and the rest of the world media for it.

Do they still sell Andrews Liver Salts btw? Some good ol' ad hominem posters could benefit :)
Hardly an ad hominem to point out that someone has an angle.
 

He3

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Damn it, claim the credit, see if we can get on the wireless tomorrow or something over it!
Credit would have to be shared in all fairness Bobert. They probably have some of that Tracker Software buzzing round that tipped them off....:cool:
 

He3

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EU soldiers in Not An EU Army

France has launched a range of initiatives to bolster the EU's security and defence policy and its military capabilities during its six month presidency of the EU. These include an update of the EU's security strategy due to be published tomorrow, which highlights new threats facing the union such as climate change, energy security and cyber-crime.

EU leaders are also set to endorse a declaration on the enhancement of capabilities of ESDP, which will sets new goals for the EU to be able to deploy 60,000 soldiers within 60 days and thousands of civilian personnel on at least a dozen simultaneous missions.

The draft declaration by the European Council on the enhancement of ESDP reaffirms the goal of "strengthening the strategic partnership between the EU and Nato in order to address current needs, in a spirit of mutual enhancement and respect of their decision-making autonomy".


Irish Times front page December 11, 2009.

Second poll on Lisbon to be held before end of October - The Irish Times - Thu, Dec 11, 2008

Warning: You must not call this EU-deployed force of 60000 soldiers an EU Army :)

You may call it Not An EU Army. Shortening that to NAEUA-FOR is also acceptable.
 

Bobert

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Sounds good to me HE3.
 

Supermanpolitician

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EU warships are beginning anti-piracy operations off the coast of Somalia.

RTÉ News: EU naval operation to counter piracy

We are told there is no such thing as an EU Army.

So who is driving the boats? Or have the silly media got it all wrong again?

...

EDIT:
Just under two hours after this thread was opened, and we are claiming no credit for this, RTÉ deleted the opening line of their report quoted above, and replaced it with this:

The EU has agreed to launch an anti-piracy naval operation off the coast of Somalia involving ships and aircraft from several nations.


Whatever prompted that editorial move, the use of the term 'EU warships' in connection with this expedition is widespread in the international media. See also here

EU Warships - Google search
I take it you don't believe that the EU should be active in protecting people.
 

He3

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Very good ThacOman. I was wondering if anyone would twig that.
 

Supermanpolitician

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When they are Marines?
So is there such a thing as the EU Marines? Sweet Enola Gay. Ireland has opted out of the miliatry alliance. This was the same EU military alliance that intervened in Serbia-Bosnia war.

I suppose people think that the EU should not have intervened there either, and just let people kill themselves.
 

Thac0man

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So is there such a thing as the EU Marines? Sweet Enola Gay. Ireland has opted out of the miliatry alliance. This was the same EU military alliance that intervened in Serbia-Bosnia war.

I suppose people think that the EU should not have intervened there either, and just let people kill themselves.
That was NATO under a UN madate. Not an EU army. Not all members of NATO are in Europe (I refer to Turkey) and neither are all European nations in NATO.
 

Supermanpolitician

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He3

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Ireland has opted out of the military alliance? Give us a break.

Our government is determined to try again to sign us up for one.

Dr Karen Devine has examined the strategy in depth:

''Perceptions of the incompatibility of active neutrality and the trajectory of the development of the ESDP explain why parties in government are accused of fudging the issue of neutrality: they are playing what political scientists call "a two-level game".

In this "game", parties in government attend to the "supra-state" level of the European Council and the demands from the larger member states such as France, Germany, Spain and the UK to achieve a maximalist EU defence policy agenda, and at the same time, face another set of largely incompatible demands from the "sub-state" level, stemming from the public's active neutrality policy preferences.

Having agreed to the supra-state level demands of ESDP, seen in the binding mutual security and defence commitments contained in the Lisbon Treaty, parties in government try to convince the sub-state constituency of public opinion that their neutrality agenda has been safeguarded through a combined strategy of minimising discussion of ESDP and reformulating concepts of military neutrality, in order to avoid punishment at the polls and to ensure EU treaty referendum amendments are passed''.



http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/38054-karen-devine-neutrality.html#post1297174

and here

While ESDP structures and capabilities are sketched in the Lisbon Treaty, the circumstances under which they will be used and against whom would be decided in the future by the European Council; in the absence of any democratic controls, ESDP is a leap too far into the unknown for many voters. Compared with the neutral traditions of Ireland, Austria, Sweden and Finland that go back decades or centuries, and are part of people's national identities, ESDP is a very recent policy conceived by a handful of elites in the absence of a European identity that is seen as necessary for its acceptance, legitimacy and success.

Henry Kissinger once observed: "No foreign policy - no matter how ingenious - has any chance of success if it is born in the minds of a few and carried in the hearts of none."

His insight illustrates the problems faced by advocates of the Lisbon Treaty's Common Security and Defence Policy that overrides, rather than accommodates, the foreign policies of neutral states.


Protecting neutrality in a militarised EU - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 27, 2008
 

Supermanpolitician

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Ireland has opted out of the military alliance? Give us a break.

Our government is determined to try again to sign us up for one.

Dr Karen Devine has examined the strategy in depth:

''Perceptions of the incompatibility of active neutrality and the trajectory of the development of the ESDP explain why parties in government are accused of fudging the issue of neutrality: they are playing what political scientists call "a two-level game".

In this "game", parties in government attend to the "supra-state" level of the European Council and the demands from the larger member states such as France, Germany, Spain and the UK to achieve a maximalist EU defence policy agenda, and at the same time, face another set of largely incompatible demands from the "sub-state" level, stemming from the public's active neutrality policy preferences.

Having agreed to the supra-state level demands of ESDP, seen in the binding mutual security and defence commitments contained in the Lisbon Treaty, parties in government try to convince the sub-state constituency of public opinion that their neutrality agenda has been safeguarded through a combined strategy of minimising discussion of ESDP and reformulating concepts of military neutrality, in order to avoid punishment at the polls and to ensure EU treaty referendum amendments are passed''.



http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/38054-karen-devine-neutrality.html#post1297174

and here

While ESDP structures and capabilities are sketched in the Lisbon Treaty, the circumstances under which they will be used and against whom would be decided in the future by the European Council; in the absence of any democratic controls, ESDP is a leap too far into the unknown for many voters. Compared with the neutral traditions of Ireland, Austria, Sweden and Finland that go back decades or centuries, and are part of people's national identities, ESDP is a very recent policy conceived by a handful of elites in the absence of a European identity that is seen as necessary for its acceptance, legitimacy and success.

Henry Kissinger once observed: "No foreign policy - no matter how ingenious - has any chance of success if it is born in the minds of a few and carried in the hearts of none."

His insight illustrates the problems faced by advocates of the Lisbon Treaty's Common Security and Defence Policy that overrides, rather than accommodates, the foreign policies of neutral states.


Protecting neutrality in a militarised EU - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 27, 2008
So in short, you are in favour of us not doing our part in countries such as Chad and Kosovo?
 

He3

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We could finesse the military alliance question by agreeing to call it the Not an EU Military Alliance - NEUMA.
 

Bobert

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SMP, do you want to see an end to the neutrality enshrined in the constitution?
 

He3

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To sum up, we now have three new EU acronyms to get used to:

Not an EU Warship - NEUW

Not an EU Army - NEUA

Not an EU Military Alliance - NEUMA.

Logo suggestions welcome!
 

He3

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EU exerts a new kind of military muscle, says Newsweek

Newsweek sees it as an EU navy, like RTÉ used to before their reference to EU warships was noted here on Politics.ie. Whose is the hidden hand that changed the website wording so swiftly I wonder?

When six warships flying the European Union flag began their mission in the Gulf of Aden last week, it marked the first naval operation in EU history—and for good reason: this year Somali pirates have hijacked 40 ships in this key shipping lane, taking 806 hostages. Given the region's size, EU officials know that the other foreign navies there need all the help they can get.

The operation will mark a sharp departure for EU defense, which has historically meant boots-on-the-ground peacekeeping and humanitarian missions in Africa, European trouble spots like the Balkans and elsewhere. Typically, these missions involve French military forces, while Britain has generally favored working within a NATO coalition. Naval missions, meanwhile, have been carried out by individual EU states, or with NATO, rather than through Brussels.

But the Somali operation makes sense. With dwindling financial resources, and a low appetite for risk, EU foreign ministers are split over the United Nations' request to send an EU force into bloodstained eastern Congo—the kind of mission the EU is known for. Yet there was little squabbling over the naval operation. It will be run by a British admiral—of symbolic if not also military significance—and puts Europe toward the center of an ongoing challenge: securing sea lanes. But most important, perhaps, it gives the EU a chance to show a new kind of military muscle—with relatively little cost or risk.


European Union's First Naval Mission: Gulf of Aden | Newsweek International | Newsweek.com
 


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