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€2.5 Billion debt write off for Sean Quinn.


eire_sai

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Apr 26, 2009
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Appauling that the tax payer has to pick up this bill. He must know some inside information that hes keeping quite about to have got this gift.
 

Cael

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As reported in the Sunday Business Post €2.5 Billion of the €2.9 Billion that he borrowed from the bank has been written.

Roughly 10% of the Anglo bailout.
One of the top buck cats in de ruling oligarchy - what do you expect? You hardly thought he would pick up his own bill...
 

Cael

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Appauling that the tax payer has to pick up this bill. He must know some inside information that hes keeping quite about to have got this gift.
No, he's just one of the ruling oligarchy. Its no secret.
 

MPB

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Had to happen. Can you imagine the amount of cement lorries that would have driven into the gates of Leinster House if his debt was not written off.
 

orourkeda

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One of the top buck cats in de ruling oligarchy - what do you expect? You hardly thought he would pick up his own bill...
Definitely not.

I never imagined for one second he would pay this off. It just highlights to an extent what it is we're paying for.

That's €2.5 billion euro worth of loans that we have had written willy nilly.
 

goosebump

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I wonder will the Cavan Chamber of Commerce be organising another show of support for their man?
 

Cael

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Definitely not.

I never imagined for one second he would pay this off. It just highlights to an extent what it is we're paying for.

That's €2.5 billion euro worth of loans that we have had written willy nilly.

Its like the last days of the Roman empire - but no Roman emperor ever got a gift of that magnitude. What a bunch of herd animals the Irish really are...
 

Outlander

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In the real world when debts are "written off" it is simply a statement that they are unlikely to be recovered, not that they will not be pursued.

I wonder do we live in the real world?
 

jimmyfour

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In the real world when debts are "written off" it is simply a statement that they are unlikely to be recovered, not that they will not be pursued.

I wonder do we live in the real world?
I wonder will he go to jail for jeapordising the stability of the state to such an extent that would have been called treason in times of yore.

Every single of these guys, the bankers that loaned the money and the government and non-government politicians who all had a hand in this have committed treason against the state IMO.
 

goosebump

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In the real world when debts are "written off" it is simply a statement that they are unlikely to be recovered, not that they will not be pursued.

I wonder do we live in the real world?
That's something that is often overlooked when debts are written down. Its an accounting exercise, but it doesn't mean the debt has been expunged.

Hopefully, it means that every time Quinn earns a euro over the next 20 years, someone from NAMA will be on hand to pocket 80c of it.
 

Sariel

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The taxpayer has not spent one penny on any bailout of anybody. If you look at it from this point of view:

From the Government side:
They have increased their assets i.e. the equities issued by the banks.
Their liabilities have increased: Promissory Notes.

From the Banks side:
They have increased their assets: Governments Promissory Notes.
Their liabilities have also increased: Equities issued to the Govenment.

In the future dividends will flow to the government from the banks and interest payments on the promissory notes will flow to the banks. There has been no money exchanged. It's all smoke and mirrors.
 

goosebump

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The taxpayer has not spent one penny on any bailout of anybody. If you look at it from this point of view:

From the Government side:
They have increased their assets i.e. the equities issued by the banks.
Their liabilities have increased: Promissory Notes.

From the Banks side:
They have increased their assets: Governments Promissory Notes.
Their liabilities have also increased: Equities issued to the Govenment.

In the future dividends will flow to the government from the banks and interest payments on the promissory notes will flow to the banks. There has been no money exchanged. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Its a fair point, but its not the simple.

Firstly, €1.5bn from the NPRF has gone into Anglo, and that won't come back.

Thereafter, Anglo has €19bn in promissory notes, and has used these to borrow from the Central Bank and the ECB. Over the coming months, it will use those borrowings to finance the maturity of about €7bn in Senior Debt.

Once that money leaves the system, the Government doesn't have the option of not honouring the promissory notes.

An incoming Government could choose not to honour the remaining notes, but that would mean a default on the remainder of the Senior Debt, in which case the Senior Debt and the Deposits would have to be treated pari passu, which mean triggering the deposit guarantee.

There's no way out. There never was.
 

orourkeda

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In the real world when debts are "written off" it is simply a statement that they are unlikely to be recovered, not that they will not be pursued.

I wonder do we live in the real world?
That does happen. No doubt. However, when was the last time a debt of this size was written off at the expense of the tax payer in these circumstances.
 

actiondoc

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Jul 24, 2008
Messages
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The taxpayer has not spent one penny on any bailout of anybody. If you look at it from this point of view:

From the Government side:
They have increased their assets i.e. the equities issued by the banks.
Their liabilities have increased: Promissory Notes.

From the Banks side:
They have increased their assets: Governments Promissory Notes.
Their liabilities have also increased: Equities issued to the Govenment.

In the future dividends will flow to the government from the banks and interest payments on the promissory notes will flow to the banks. There has been no money exchanged. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Except of course borrowing billions from primarily the ECB to fund basic health, education and policing services. Or rather, borrowing billions to prop up loan books from private banks, while allowing the basic health, education and policing services to become dillapidated.

Not much cause for crisis anyway as no one will be left to get sick, require education or need security. Fianna Fail, Fianna Gael, Labour and the rest can all join togther to compete for king sh1t of turd mountain.
 

MPB

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Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,465
That's something that is often overlooked when debts are written down. Its an accounting exercise, but it doesn't mean the debt has been expunged.

Hopefully, it means that every time Quinn earns a euro over the next 20 years, someone from NAMA will be on hand to pocket 80c of it.
I hope you are right, but I would not be surprised if he and his family end up owning the ESB, with Bertie and Cowen on the board of directors.
 

Sariel

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May 21, 2010
Messages
318
Its a fair point, but its not the simple.

Firstly, €1.5bn from the NPRF has gone into Anglo, and that won't come back.

Thereafter, Anglo has €19bn in promissory notes, and has used these to borrow from the Central Bank and the ECB. Over the coming months, it will use those borrowings to finance the maturity of about €7bn in Senior Debt.

Once that money leaves the system, the Government doesn't have the option of not honouring the promissory notes.

An incoming Government could choose not to honour the remaining notes, but that would mean a default on the remainder of the Senior Debt, in which case the Senior Debt and the Deposits would have to be treated pari passu, which mean triggering the deposit guarantee.

There's no way out. There never was.
Anglo will hand the notes to the ECB, the ECB will mark up it's Asset side with the value of the notes and credit Anglos reserve account to the same value. Theres no problem with any of this and no involvment of the tax payer.

It doesn't matter what they use them for. All banks in Europe are indebted to the central bank. The money never actually leaves the system. The government are issuing promissory notes to recapitalize Anglo Irish Bank, the bank uses these notes to rebuild their capital base. The capital is not spent until there are losses and depositors want out. If Anglo buys Irish debt this will go towards its capital just like now. It is just a form of deposit insurance, the only problem that can occur is if the ECB refuses to accept government debt. Why would the government not honour it they can create as many promissory notes as they wish, it is up to the ECB whether to accept them. They are just expanding their balance sheets. There is no actual tax money involved.

Its just a simple exchange of assets.
 
Last edited:

orourkeda

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I wonder will he go to jail for jeapordising the stability of the state to such an extent that would have been called treason in times of yore.

Every single of these guys, the bankers that loaned the money and the government and non-government politicians who all had a hand in this have committed treason against the state IMO.
Surely the people who lent the money on the basis of poor security are the real culprits.

Having said that you can only lend if you have a willing borrower and vice versa but surely it's the borrowers responsibility to make sure that they have a reasonable chance of recouping their outlay.
 

Sariel

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Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
318
I agree with you about the NPFR, that should never have been touched. The problem we have is this should of been taken up at the European level. No country that uses the Euro can safeguard its banking system. It's like New York State coming to the rescue of Lehman Brothers. There is no credible deposit insurance in Europe any more at the national level.
 
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