€500 billion EU-Wide Recovery Fund to Support EU Regions Worst Hit By COVID-19

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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(this thread was deleted by politics.ie due to server and backup failure New - Recent Forum Outages)

a proposal tabled by Macron-Merkel would see EU member states gifting money to regions most affected by COVID-19. Tis not a loan but free money. needs to be paid back by member states in accordance to ECB capital key subscription.


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owedtojoy said:
Ironically, the UK might have opposed it on grounds of parsimony, but they are not around anymore.

Ireland have broken with the Netherlands over prospective austerity, so I guess Netherlands would be the only ones to rally against it. I do not see Italy or Spain opposing - one of the targets is Tourism in those countries. Possibly the other "Hanseatic League 2.0" countries, like Scandinavia.

As long as there are (1) no taxation conditions, or (2) no condtions on fiscal prudence that might annoy the Italians, it is hard to see where other opposition would come from. I presume Angela Merkel has cleared it politically.
It's Austria, Denmark and the Netherlands that oppose that money for nothing approach. And let's not forget Ireland will have to carve out 7 billion euro for this plan to finance most affected areas in Italy, Spain and Greece. If they go by EU wealth key it will be more like 10 billion for Ireland.

EU parliament event wants to go above trillion euro in free money paid for with proceeds of EU wide tax harmonization efforts and new taxes on plastics, a digital tax, financial transactions tax and levy on goods imported into the EU from countries that have lower CO2 emissions standards.


fat finger said:
So Ireland is to borrow EVEN MORE money to help out EU areas that already have money to spend on the problem?!
Grand so.
At school they taught us Lombardy the wealthiest area in Europe. Maybe they meant area deepest in debt.
Like being a Dinny billionaire
lookit Ireland is a rich country now, maybe not you personally, but there is *loads of cash in the country that make it look like it's the second wealthiest country in the EU.


owedtojoy said:
That is not a accurate characterisation - Ireland will borrow from the fund, but the risk will be mutualised through the ECB. it would be totally wrong to say Ireland will be borrowing money for the Italians (to take one example). They will borrow to revive their economy - and a healthy Italian and European economy is good for Ireland.

I still have not seen how the mutualisation happens - that will be interesting, especially with political ramifications in Germany.

brughahaha said:

Another dishonest characterisation.

The Money will be repaid through increased EU contributions . As Ireland is one of only 9 net contributors as against the 18 net beneficiaries , Ireland will indeed be saddled with paying for the money going to those 18 who are not net contributors.

In other words , we get to cover other peoples debts ......yet again

And again the irish political Establishment and media will forget to mention all this

Free money my arse
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YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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latest recovery COVID19 fund proposal shows

Italy to get €172.7 billion and can keep 81.087 billion Euro in free money

Spain €140.4 billion with €77.3bn in aid

Poland €53.8 billion of that €37.693 in aid

France €38.7 billion in repayable loans

Germany €28.8 billion in repayable loans

no mention of Ireland yet as tax adjustment requirements tied to free monies considered unattractive to some

 

Maximus Cynicus

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Just tell the Central Bank of Ireland to roll the digital printing press.

Everyone else is.
Good point. In reality, where do people think all this "borrowed" money is coming from? The Saudis? A plastic tax? Horseshyte - like the USA the financial crisis will be handled by printing oceans of Euros. And Ireland is being encouraged to look at corporation tax by being one of the players without a chair when the music stops. As an aside, this virus has thrown up serious - let's say - "ramifications".........some would say opportunities
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Good point. In reality, where do people think all this "borrowed" money is coming from? The Saudis? A plastic tax? Horseshyte - like the USA the financial crisis will be handled by printing oceans of Euros. And Ireland is being encouraged to look at corporation tax by being one of the players without a chair when the music stops. As an aside, this virus has thrown up serious - let's say - "ramifications".........some would say opportunities
I'd say at this point everybody knows this isn't so much about COVID19 but a bailout for Italy. The Euro is at stake and a second wave could finish the Euro system later this fall. printing already happend since Draghi opened the flood gates back in 2015 but the system really is broken for good since first bailouts in 2010-12.
 

puffin

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At the speed the EU moves at this dosh may not be available until November optimistically, the people who live in Cold countries who have to light a fire to keep warm, may have certain reservations about subbing the South, it is plain to see that Angela does not have worry about reelection
 

owedtojoy

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21842.jpg

At the speed the EU moves at this dosh may not be available until November optimistically, the people who live in Cold countries who have to light a fire to keep warm, may have certain reservations about subbing the South, it is plain to see that Angela does not have worry about reelection
There is pretty much a realism, even in Germany, that the last Financial Crisis gave us Austerity politics and near-Fascism, so there is no desire to go that way.

This is a significant move towards debt mutualisation, and it is unlikely if the "Frugal 4" will muster the clout to stop it.

As for a delay in the money, the ECB will step up in the meantime.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The most troubling section of the statement being 'requires unanimous backing from all member states ...' ... :)
 

McTell

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€750 Bn is even less than the uk is spending on itself.

500m peeps are supposed to get by on less than is being spent on 60m. This is part of the modern EU problem, promising much as a coming superstate must, but not having the resources to get the job done properly.
 

owedtojoy

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The most troubling section of the statement being 'requires unanimous backing from all member states ...' ... :)
They pretty unanimously do not want more Viktor Orbans, so I expect the usual Euro-muddling to some sort of resolution.
 

toughbutfair

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Why is Ireland getting so little per capita in comparison with Italy and Spain? Germany drives all these things so it looks like the countries with fascist traditions are sticking together.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Why is Ireland getting so little per capita in comparison with Italy and Spain? Germany drives all these things so it looks like the countries with fascist traditions are sticking together.
what ya on about Italy demands solidarity or the EU will cease to exist. It's the 'We need the moolah, you have it, so you're going to give it to us and when would that be?' arms swinging stuff all over again.
 

brughahaha

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Why is Ireland getting so little per capita in comparison with Italy and Spain? Germany drives all these things so it looks like the countries with fascist traditions are sticking together.

Because everyone knows Ireland always wants to be the best boy /girl in class and is afraid to say "Boo" to anything the EU proposes. So they know it can be relied upon to take it up the ass as many times as the EU deems it necessary - while being completely ignored.

1.9 Billion for Ireland is about 4 years of its contributions returned while Spain gets 77.3 Billion and is contribution neutral.
Poland which has less than a thousand deaths and is reopening , already enjoys about 9 billion a year is going to get another free 38 billion
Even France , a Net Contributor of less than 6 Billion is getting between 6-7 years net contribution back (as against Irelands 4)

So essentially , the ravaged Irish economy , facing in to Brexit , is supposed to subsidise far far wealthier countries .......Again!!

But don't expect to read anything negative in the Irish media , where only positive spin on anything the EU does is allowed
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Because everyone knows Ireland always wants to be the best boy /girl in class and is afraid to say "Boo" to anything the EU proposes. So they know it can be relied upon to take it up the ass as many times as the EU deems it necessary - while being completely ignored.

1.9 Billion for Ireland is about 4 years of its contributions returned while Spain gets 77.3 Billion and is contribution neutral.
Poland which has less than a thousand deaths and is reopening , already enjoys about 9 billion a year is going to get another free 38 billion
Even France , a Net Contributor of less than 6 Billion is getting between 6-7 years net contribution back (as against Irelands 4)

So essentially , the ravaged Irish economy , facing in to Brexit , is supposed to subsidise far far wealthier countries .......Again!!

But don't expect to read anything negative in the Irish media , where only positive spin on anything the EU does is allowed
it's all part of the big plan by combative David McWilliams and the japanifcation of the Irish economy. debt, debt and more debt. himself now firmly entrenched in the public sector will be protected against any shocks of course. David Sniping From The Sidelines McWilliams.

 

puffin

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Neither Kaiser or King, after thirty years of delusion, Ireland rediscovered they are a sparsely populated


Island off Europe
 

Maximus Cynicus

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Why is Ireland getting so little per capita in comparison with Italy and Spain? Germany drives all these things so it looks like the countries with fascist traditions are sticking together.
I have come to a new view of Ireland as part of the EU. Imagine, if you will, Ireland being the totality of the EU. "Dublin" is a mixture of Brussels/Bonn/Strasburg, etcetera, where the big swinging dicks hang out. The rest of the country represents the EU member states, all connected by a landmass.

The Islands off the West Coast (take your pick - Aran, Tory, Achill et al) represent Ireland. Remote, out there in the west Atlantic. Not part of the landmass. Very few people in "Dublin" know or give a fiddlers what is happening out there - unless of course the currency of the land is threatened. Great place of visit for holidays or hospitality but not really a player when compared to the landmass.

That is Ireland (apologies to people of the Western Isles)
 

McTell

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Why not just have bilateral transfers from e.g. rich germany to poor italy?

Why waste time and money on meetings with eu guys in the middle? All a PR stunt to make the eu seem relevant in this crisis, which it ain't.
 

brughahaha

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I have come to a new view of Ireland as part of the EU. Imagine, if you will, Ireland being the totality of the EU. "Dublin" is a mixture of Brussels/Bonn/Strasburg, etcetera, where the big swinging dicks hang out. The rest of the country represents the EU member states, all connected by a landmass.

The Islands off the West Coast (take your pick - Aran, Tory, Achill et al) represent Ireland. Remote, out there in the west Atlantic. Not part of the landmass. Very few people in "Dublin" know or give a fiddlers what is happening out there - unless of course the currency of the land is threatened. Great place of visit for holidays or hospitality but not really a player when compared to the landmass.

That is Ireland (apologies to people of the Western Isles)
Always viewed it the same myself when listening to tales of being at the centre of Europe. Ive also found myself explaining to a significant number of Europeans that we werent part of the UK.

And after Brexit we will be even worse off ..because we will be like Inishmore if somebody put an independent Isle of Man between it and Galway
 

greencharade

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Just tell the Central Bank of Ireland to roll the digital printing press.

Everyone else is.
I post the link below because it seems to me that all state institutions are now victims, and that imaginary threats are becoming the norm to justify all sorts of things.


The software will be used to identify potential threats and hostile sentiment to the Central Bank in order for its security teams to better protect it, according to a spokesperson for the regulator.
 


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