European army?: EU chief Von der Leyen says bloc must ‘flex its muscles’

bradlux

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And she also took a potshot at Emmanuel Macron after the France’s President vetoed accession talks with Albania and North Macedonia last month, insisting the EU must “honour its word”. In a speech on the state of Europe delivered in Berlin, European Commission President-elect Mrs von der Leyen stressed the EU’s strengths as a bastion of openness and democracy in a troubled world and said Brexit had forged a tighter group out of the remaining members of the bloc. She added: “We must go our own European way with confidence.
“Soft power alone won’t suffice today if we Europeans want to assert ourselves in the world.
“Europe must also learn the language of power.”
“That means on the one hand developing our own muscles – where for a long time we could lean on others, for example in security policy.
 


rainmaker

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There's always nonsense talk of a 'European army' (scaremongering about conscription etc), and I doubt it will ever happen, for many practical and logistical reasons.

Most of the more powerful European nations are in NATO, of which they already cannot meet the minimum spending recommendations.

I can't see them investing the required sums to form and maintain a better organization.
 

McTell

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And she also took a potshot at Emmanuel Macron after the France’s President vetoed accession talks with Albania and North Macedonia last month, insisting the EU must “honour its word”. In a speech on the state of Europe delivered in Berlin, European Commission President-elect Mrs von der Leyen stressed the EU’s strengths as a bastion of openness and democracy in a //
//

Nein danke, we don't want a militarised europe.

We are a theme park, as far as american and chinese tourists are concerned. That is our main function in the world economy.

The whole spiel is about increasing french arms sales, that have "tanked" in the past decade.
 

owedtojoy

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And she also took a potshot at Emmanuel Macron after the France’s President vetoed accession talks with Albania and North Macedonia last month, insisting the EU must “honour its word”. In a speech on the state of Europe delivered in Berlin, European Commission President-elect Mrs von der Leyen stressed the EU’s strengths as a bastion of openness and democracy in a troubled world and said Brexit had forged a tighter group out of the remaining members of the bloc. She added: “We must go our own European way with confidence.
“Soft power alone won’t suffice today if we Europeans want to assert ourselves in the world.
“Europe must also learn the language of power.”
“That means on the one hand developing our own muscles – where for a long time we could lean on others, for example in security policy.
With a weak and ineffectual President in charge of the US, there are few alternatives for Europe.

For example, sub-Saharan Africa is in turmoil, and it is foolish to pretend Europe does not have an interest in peace and stability there.

BTW, a European Army is not even necessary, nor conscription. Modern armies are composed mostly of career professionals. The days when you needed a massive conscript army as cannon fodder are over. Fire-power does the job better, and for that you need technology.

National armies are still sufficient to provide professional soldiers. Co-ordination of weaponry and tactics is already happening. Pooling of intelligence already happens. It is strategic thinking that is required, and (if I understand Macron correctly) that is what is lacking in NATO with Trump is in office.
 

toughbutfair

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We need an EU army. The USA, China and Russia are competing for the world’s resources. We need the EU to unite military and vastly increase our military spend to USA levels to have any chance of not losing.

If the USA went to war with the EU, we’d have no chance. Think the French are the only ones who even have nukes(post Brexit)
 

Catahualpa

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We need an EU army. The USA, China and Russia are competing for the world’s resources. We need the EU to unite military and vastly increase our military spend to USA levels to have any chance of not losing.

If the USA went to war with the EU, we’d have no chance. Think the French are the only ones who even have nukes(post Brexit)
They should give us all a few each so....:geek:
 

blinding

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We need an EU army. The USA, China and Russia are competing for the world’s resources. We need the EU to unite military and vastly increase our military spend to USA levels to have any chance of not losing.

If the USA went to war with the EU, we’d have no chance. Think the French are the only ones who even have nukes(post Brexit)
What could possibly go wrong by giving the Germans an Army in Europe ? !

Have you studied any history ?
 

Tacitus

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What could possibly go wrong by giving the Germans an Army in Europe ? !

Have you studied any history ?
You obviously did not, otherwise you would know how silly this view is. Dont claim that you have studied history when all you do is reducing a people's history to 12 years. Not to mention that you confuse the real problem with German involvement. Germany's tradition of military restrain and the obligation of receiving the approval of the German parliament before each mission would likely make it difficult for an European army to be deployed rapidly.

Anyway, more European cooperation on defence would be a good thing. We could be more efficient for less cost if we agreed to pool our ressources together.
 
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mr_anderson

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There's always nonsense talk of a 'European army' (scaremongering about conscription etc), and I doubt it will ever happen, for many practical and logistical reasons.

Most of the more powerful European nations are in NATO, of which they already cannot meet the minimum spending recommendations.

I can't see them investing the required sums to form and maintain a better organization.
Combine all armies into one and they'll save.
Huge overlap.
 

McTell

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A European army has been talked of for a long time. Rene Pleven tried to get one going in the 1950s, but it never happened. Im warming to the idea, I have to say. It would be good to supplant NATO.


If we are less close to the US and UK, that's no reason for us to sign up in their place.

As it is, our defence budget is 900m a year and would go higher. Where we need defending is cyberspace, but the sons of sons of 1922 officer elite are still into parades and bullets.

Neutrality is one of the pluses in our independence story and not to be traded away.
 

Dame_Enda

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I support a European army provided it isn't used to oppress us like the British army used to be.

Also if Trump takes the US out of NATO in future the EU will have to defend itself without the US.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Well I doubt the Russians are planning any mad dashes across western Europe any time soon. They appear to be doing alright with their other methods of keeping NATO member countries on the hop and with a rather sophisticated system for influencing votes in NATO countries as well, it seems.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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For me it is a simple matter of numbers. We had 9 million population half way through the 19th century. From the Famine and consequent emigration we lost near enough two thirds of that number. I don't know what the precise figures are but have read that we may have lost as many as 150,000 to 200,000 Irishmen who then fought in two World Wars in which we weren't even official combatants.

We have good reason to pause a bit with the old war games. Especially fighting other people's wars to the point historically where we have had Irishmen shooting at each other in the service of foreign wars.

We aren't really in a position to be supplying fresh cannon fodder for anyone.
 


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