European attitudes towards gender-based violence.

[Oscurito]

A recent survey reveals wide variations in attitudes in the European Union towards gender-based violence. By and large, countries in Eastern Europe are more tolerant of gender-based violence but the situation is complex and in some cases, the figures for some Western European countries suggest that they have some catching up to do - even with some of their eastern cousins.

You can get the data here. Click on "Reports (1)" and then click on the wee PDF icon to download the report.

These are the stand-out points for me.

1. Do women often make up or exaggerate claims of abuse or rape?
More than one in five respondents (22%) across the EU agree women often make up or exaggerate claims of abuse or rape. Respondents in Malta (47%), Cyprus (44%), Lithuania (42%), Latvia (39%), Estonia (31%) and UK (30%) all reported agreement from 3 in 10 or more respondents. At the other end of the scale, these figures compared to just 8% in Sweden and 13% in France and Italy. The figure for Republic of Ireland is 23%.

2. Violence against women?
In Latvia, 57% of respondents agree that it's often provoked by the victim. 45% of Lithuanians and 40% of Maltese agree. In Ireland, the figure is 18% - just above the EU average of 17%.

3. Sexual intercourse without consent?
I'll put the details in another post but in this question, survey participants were asked of sex without consent was justified while being presented with various scenarios such as the victim being drunk or on drugs, wearing revealing clothing or flirting beforehand.

In six countries, 40% or more respondents agreed that at least one of the circumstances justified sexual intercourse without consent. These were Romania (55%), Hungary (47%), Bulgaria (43%), Czech Republic (42%), Belgium and Slovakia (both 40%). The lowest figures came from Sweden (6%), Spain (8%), Finland (11%) and Denmark (13%). For the Republic of Ireland, the figure was 21%. This is below the average EU figure of 27%.

4. Domestic violence against women: is it ever acceptable?
In Poland, 6% of respondents said it was acceptable in certain circumstances. Slovakia and Romania were 5% and 4% respectively. At the other end of the scale were Denmark, Sweden and Malta where zero % said it was acceptable in certain circumstances. Republic of Ireland was 1%.


5. Domestic violence against women: should it always be punishable by law?
In Latvia, 30% of responses said it should not always be punishable by law. The same response was given by 23% in Slovakia, 22% in the Netherlands and 20% in Belgium. Single digit percentages were returned in Portugal (2%), Spain (4%), Sweden (6%), Italy (7%), Republic of Ireland (8%) and Greece (9%).

6. Domestic violence against men: is it ever acceptable?
The countries returning the lowest percentages saying it's acceptable in certain circumstances were Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Republic of Ireland and Slovenia who returned 5%, 5%, 7%, 9% and 9% respectively. The highest percentages were in Latvia (32%), Romania (26%) and Slovakia (24%).

7. Domestic violence against men: should it always be punishable by law?
Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Republic of Ireland, Denmark France and Slovenia all reported responses 85% or higher saying it should always be punishable by law. With Portugal, Spain and Sweden, it was 92-93%. The lowest percentages were in Latvia (55%), Romania (62%), Slovakia (63%) and Poland (68%).

8. Forcing a partner to have sex.
Lithuania is the only country where more than one in four thinks forcing a partner to have sex should not be illegal (31%). The figure was 24% in the Czech Republic, 21% in Italy, Latvia and Slovakia, and 20% in Romania. Just 2% of respondents in the UK and Sweden and 3% in France and Ireland think the same way.

9. Making sexually suggestive comments or “jokes” to a woman in the street.
More than one in five respondents in each country think making these kinds of comments to women in the street should not be against the law, and in nine Member States more than half think this way. Respondents in Austria (62%), Germany (58%), the Netherlands and Finland (both 57%) are the most likely to think this should not be illegal, while those in Portugal (23%), Poland and Malta (both 27%) are the least likely to do so. For the Republic of Ireland, the figure is 28%.

Nearly one in ten respondents in Slovenia (9%) say this behaviour is not wrong and should not be against the law, followed by Austria, Germany and Lithuania (all 8%). The lowest figures were in the UK, Malta and Portugal who reported 1%, 1% and 2% respectively. For the Republic of Ireland, the figure is 3%.

 

[Oscurito]

These are the details referred to in point 3 in the OP.

So, for example, in the Republic of Ireland, with regard to sex without consent:
- 11% think it's okay if victim is drunk or on drugs
- 9% think it's okay if victim goes home voluntarily with perpetrator
- 9% think it's okay if victim was wearing revealing clothing
- 8% think it's okay if victim didn't clearly say no or physically fight back
- 7% think it's okay if victim flirted beforehand
- 7% think it's okay if victim had several sexual partners
- 7% think it's okay if victim was out walking alone at night
- 3% think it's okay if assailant doesn't know what they're doing
- 3% think it's okay if assailant regrets his (sic) actions

 

[Oscurito]

Final post (unless there's something to reply to) in a thread that has attracted less interest than I would have expected considering how controversial some of the findings are.

At the end of this article, there's a handy wee graphic where you can flick through an interactive bar chart of the data in the above post #2.

Sex without consent acceptable to 21% of Irish poll respondents

 

[Dame_Enda]

Final post (unless there's something to reply to) in a thread that has attracted less interest than I would have expected considering how controversial some of the findings are.

At the end of this article, there's a handy wee graphic where you can flick through an interactive bar chart of the data in the above post #2.

Sex without consent acceptable to 21% of Irish poll respondents

I think there is a spectrum of such cases. If the person says "no" or words to that effect, its a clear cut case of rape because there isnt consent. But on the other hand, does "without consent" mean that consent was expressly refused, or could it include cases where lines are blurred, such as drunken or drug fuelled sex? Are we going to criminalise people for the latter kinds of sex. Because if we are the prisons will be full.

I was watching the new Netflix series "Medici - Masters of Florence" last night. In one of the episodes where Cosimo de Medici comes home from exile and has a row with his wife over their infidelities. Then all of a sudden, Cosimo grabs Contassina (the wife) and they have sex. Do p.iers consider such a situation to constitute rape, because she didn't specifically ask for sex?

Thats why for once I agree with feminists such as Noeline Blackwell that we need a definition of consent. However my concern is that there will be nuance that will lead to people who understand there have been consent going to prison unjustly. So it would need to be very specific and to reflect society as it is rather than unrealistic concepts of how sexual contact should be obtained.

 

[greengoose2]

One might feel an urge to invoke the ZOO comment. ZZzzz

 

[stopdoingstuff]

Those are some fairly grim numbers all the same. Very happily we have massive majorities being sensible, but it is still the case that a quarter of people think at least one of the scenarios removes the need for consent.

 

[Oscurito]

I think there is a spectrum of such cases. If the person says "no" or words to that effect, its a clear cut case of rape because there isnt consent. But on the other hand, does "without consent" mean that consent was expressly refused, or could it include cases where lines are blurred, such as drunken or drug fuelled sex? Are we going to criminalise people for the latter kinds of sex. Because if we are the prisons will be full.

I was watching the new Netflix series "Medici - Masters of Florence" last night. In one of the episodes where Cosimo de Medici comes home from exile and has a row with his wife over their infidelities. Then all of a sudden, Cosimo grabs Contassina (the wife) and they have sex. Do p.iers consider such a situation to constitute rape, because she didn't specifically ask for sex?

Thats why for once I agree with feminists such as Noeline Blackwell that we need a definition of consent. However my concern is that there will be nuance that will lead to people who understand there have been consent going to prison unjustly. So it would need to be very specific and to reflect society as it is rather than unrealistic concepts of how sexual contact should be obtained.

And the more people get bogged down in the details as to what constitutes consent, the more the whole act loses a certain spontaneity which lies at the heart of it.

Anyway, there's other detail there too such as:
- nearly half of all Maltese believing that women often make up or exaggerate claims of abuse or rape
- 57% of Latvians agreeing that violence against women is often provoked by the victim

One of the questions in the consent/no consent issue assumes that the perpetrator will always be male.

 

[silverharp]

Final post (unless there's something to reply to) in a thread that has attracted less interest than I would have expected considering how controversial some of the findings are.

At the end of this article, there's a handy wee graphic where you can flick through an interactive bar chart of the data in the above post #2.

Sex without consent acceptable to 21% of Irish poll respondents

wasn't there a thread back in Oct Nov on the exact same report, or is this a different one.

 

[Hunter-Gatherer]

keep flooding Europe with uprooted men , and you are imposing 'celibacy without consent' on most of the male population. And its every feminists dream to have tons of extra men to pay tax or compete with each other for each available woman. Just saying.

 

[Oscurito]

One might feel an urge to invoke the ZOO comment. ZZzzz

Hang around, GG. Someone might want to have sex with you some day.

 

[Oscurito]

keep flooding Europe with uprooted men , and you are imposing 'celibacy without consent' on most of the male population. And its every feminists dream to have tons of extra men to pay tax or compete with each other for each available woman. Just saying.

In fairness, some of the places with the most regressive attitudes such as Malta and the Baltic States wouldn't be high on the list of preferred destinations for refugees/migrants.

 

[GDPR]

It strikes me that a lot of this boils down to public information.

For example, I noted that Portugal had the highest rate of saying domestic violence should always be punishable by law. This, I am positive, goes back to a very powerful campaign about ten years ago undertaken by the Portuguese police, which included posters all over public transport saying "Domestic violence? We ALWAYS prosecute." I met the police officer who originated the campaign and she said it had an enormous impact on reporting. Up till then, victims suffered in silence.

Again, if there are relatively high numbers of people in the UK saying women exaggerate claims of domestic violence etc, then I am sure this is because the Daily Fail etc runs regular articles about false allegations. These are extremely rare according to the UK police, but the impression is created that they are routine.

I can recall a period, very recently, when people just shook their heads at the idea of marital rape. Yes, they could imagine someone giving in grudgingly for peace and quiet, when they really didnt feel like it, but they assumed that once a woman was married she had somehow forfeited any right to just say No. That changed in the 90s in the UK, again as a result of a surge of publicity. However discussing it around the same time with some people from Slovenia, they simply gaped. What an odd idea.

 

[mr_anderson]

Does the survey tell you what religion the proponents of legalised violence are ?

Ask 100 Christians, 100 Atheists & 100 Muslims their opinion on marital rape and I think we all know which group will find it most acceptable.

It's almost like it's the cause of such tolerance.
Ahh I forgot, in this enlightened age we forget about the cause, instead we just try and fix the symptoms.

 

[Oscurito]

wasn't there a thread back in Oct Nov on the exact same report, or is this a different one.

Do you mean "What percentage of men have committed sexual assaults on women?".

It couldn't have been about this report because the thread was started in October and the report was only published in November.

I'd say that people just found the OP a bit long and heavy on detail.

 

[Oscurito]

It strikes me that a lot of this boils down to public information.

For example, I noted that Portugal had the highest rate of saying domestic violence should always be punishable by law. This, I am positive, goes back to a very powerful campaign about ten years ago undertaken by the Portuguese police, which included posters all over public transport saying "Domestic violence? We ALWAYS prosecute." I met the police officer who originated the campaign and she said it had an enormous impact on reporting. Up till then, victims suffered in silence.

Again, if there are relatively high numbers of people in the UK saying women exaggerate claims of domestic violence etc, then I am sure this is because the Daily Fail etc runs regular articles about false allegations. These are extremely rare according to the UK police, but the impression is created that they are routine.

I can recall a period, very recently, when people just shook their heads at the idea of marital rape. Yes, they could imagine someone giving in grudgingly for peace and quiet, when they really didnt feel like it, but they assumed that once a woman was married she had somehow forfeited any right to just say No. That changed in the 90s in the UK, again as a result of a surge of publicity. However discussing it around the same time with some people from Slovenia, they simply gaped. What an odd idea.

The Ched Evans case is probably responsible for much of the high levels of people in the UK agreeing that "women often make up or exaggerate claims of abuse or rape". But the Hate Mail plays its part too.

Spain and Portugal shine out as beacons of progressiveness in this poll. Alongside Sweden, the results show a firmly established culture against gender-based violence

 

[Oscurito]

Does the survey tell you what religion the proponents of legalised violence are ?

Ask 100 Christians, 100 Atheists & 100 Muslims their opinion on marital rape and I think we all know which group will find it most acceptable.

It's almost like it's the cause of such tolerance.
Ahh I forgot, in this enlightened age we forget about the cause, instead we just try and fix the symptoms.

There's no mention of religion in the report at all.

 

[GDPR]

Does the survey tell you what religion the proponents of legalised violence are ?

Ask 100 Christians, 100 Atheists & 100 Muslims their opinion on marital rape and I think we all know which group will find it most acceptable.

It's almost like it's the cause of such tolerance.
Ahh I forgot, in this enlightened age we forget about the cause, instead we just try and fix the symptoms.

Well if we take Malta as being particularly regressive the predominant religion is Roman Catholicism, which is enshrined in the Constitution and which plays a strong role in society.

The Baltic States are either Lutheran or Catholic.

On the other hand, Spain and Portugal are Catholic countries and emerge from the survey as having quite progressive attitudes. I dont think you can say that the majority religion is the key factor here. I mentioned the somewhat backward thinking in Slovenia, which is reflected in the survey. That is a Catholic country too, and one which was Communist like the Baltic States for many years.

You would think Communism with its emphasis on egalitarianism would have had an influence on social views of violence towards women etc but seemingly not.

 

[stopdoingstuff]

You would think Communism with its emphasis on egalitarianism would have had an influence on social views of violence towards women etc but seemingly not.

There Russians interviewed a few female cosmonauts a while back and the first question was about coping without make up in space. I would give myself high trolling marks if I came up with that, but it was asked as a serious question.

 

[EUrJokingMeRight]

So Ireland thinks that domestic violence against men is 9 times more acceptable than violence against women.

There's your cultural issue right there.

This country needs a good kick up the hole.

Domestic violence is not acceptable.

 

[talkingshop]

These are the details referred to in point 3 in the OP.

So, for example, in the Republic of Ireland, with regard to sex without consent:
- 11% think it's okay if victim is drunk or on drugs
- 9% think it's okay if victim goes home voluntarily with perpetrator
- 9% think it's okay if victim was wearing revealing clothing
- 8% think it's okay if victim didn't clearly say no or physically fight back
- 7% think it's okay if victim flirted beforehand
- 7% think it's okay if victim had several sexual partners
- 7% think it's okay if victim was out walking alone at night
- 3% think it's okay if assailant doesn't know what they're doing
- 3% think it's okay if assailant regrets his (sic) actions

That is disappointing, I actually find it hard to believe.