Eurozone is preparing to jettison the PIIGS: FT

CookieMonster

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How could I have 'twisted' his words when I quoted full paragraphs from the article?
"twisted" in p.ie parlance does not mean what you and I may believe it to mean. It actually means that you have reported something that somebody doesn't like and thus wished to discredit... somehow.
 


sondagefaux

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"This is not about helping countries in trouble. This is about helping them to get out".

OK - please point out the big leap from the content of those two sentences that I highlighted and the thread title?
What evidence is there, apart from Munchau's opinion (and even he accepts that nothing is likely to happen), that the eurozone is preparing to jettison any members?
 

CookieMonster

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I was just trying to guess at what seabhcan was saying. But he has clarified now.

You reproduce Munchau's words but I think there is a very large leap from the content of the article to the title of the thread. I don't know if you'd call that "twisting" but I do think it is dishonest.
How do you work that one out? Muchau is saying, on reading the full proposal he say that the EMU wasn't about helping countries out, it was about helping them to get out. How is that not preparation for getting rid of them?
 

bormotello

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Even a strong currency could not leave the euro without declaring restrictions on personal freedom.

Ireland can't leave because any announcement would instantly result in massive capital flight. Germany can't leave because it would instantly result in capital flight to germany. That would mean that Germany would have to convert all the currency on its territory, and if people feared that the Euro would fall after Germany left, then people would travel to Germany to exchange their euros.

Germany could only leave by simultaneously announcing the complete closure of their borders, and the ending of free capital movements. Germany's exporters wouldn't be happy with that to say the least.
Germans can impose restriction that only money earned in Germany with paid tax them could be exchanged. Everybody else can buy German goods instead.
Win-win situation for Germany
 

seabhcan

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Indeed. the FT has a habit of hiring idiots as associate editors. Funny how the abuse stars when somebody says something the Eurolovvies don't like, even against somebody like Munchau who has, throughout his career, been a strong supporter of the EU.
I don't care whether he's a EU supporter or a BNP member. The man has joined the ranks of the irrational by suggesting it is possible to leave the euro. I'm still waiting for any of the 'leave-the-euro' crowd to explain how it could be done.
 

evercloserunion

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How do you work that one out? Muchau is saying, on reading the full proposal he say that the EMU wasn't about helping countries out, it was about helping them to get out. How is that not preparation for getting rid of them?
If the EMF was established and in force, a case might be made that the Eurozone was preparing to jettison troubled countries. But it's not, and there's not even any certainty that the EMF is its current proposed form will ever see the light of day (as Munchau acknowledges).

Besides, Schauble's EMF proposal is about preparing for potential future scenarios. Even Munchau admits that Greece will be bailed out, that is something that is happening now because we don't currently have the EMF and won't for a while, in any case.
 

kerrynorth

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What evidence is there, apart from Munchau's opinion (and even he accepts that nothing is likely to happen), that the eurozone is preparing to jettison any members?
Christ almighty. It looks as if the burden of proof for posting anything on p.ie appears to even go beyond the criminal 'beyond all reasonable doubt' to 'no doubt or question mark whatsoever'!

All I am reporting is what Munchau has written in the FT - no more no less. The 'FT' in the thread title should have been a hint.
 

evercloserunion

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No real answer then?
:roll: I've explained it in that post and now I've explained it again to Cookie. I'm not going to sit here and spoonfeed you increasingly broken down explanations. Time will tell. If the Eurozone is preparing to expel the PIIGS then we can expect those nations to be expelled from the Eurozone in the near future.
 

CookieMonster

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I don't care whether he's a EU supporter or a BNP member. The man has joined the ranks of the irrational by suggesting it is possible to leave the euro. I'm still waiting for any of the 'leave-the-euro' crowd to explain how it could be done.
When I read the whole proposal in detail, the fog lifted – or maybe my confusion just reached a higher level. I realised that the EMF is just a smokescreen. The real bullet in his proposal is that countries could leave the eurozone without leaving the European Union. This is not about helping countries in trouble. This is about helping them to get out.
 

sondagefaux

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Christ almighty. It looks as if the burden of proof for posting anything on p.ie appears to even go beyond the criminal 'beyond all reasonable doubt' to 'no doubt or question mark whatsoever'!

All I am reporting is what Munchau has written in the FT - no more no less. The 'FT' in the thread title should have been a hint.
Fine. Now go and untwist your knickers.

Munchau on the euro last year.

But Ireland is not the biggest danger for the eurozone. If the country goes down, the eurozone will bail it out. Even the Germans accept this now. A far more imminent danger lurks in central and eastern Europe. The possibility of a financial collapse there is the most urgent policy issue the European Union must confront at this point. If mishandled, it could bring down the eurozone……..

In my view, the smartest answer to the prospect of meltdown is the adoption of the euro as quickly as possible. There is no need to switch over tomorrow. All we need tomorrow is a credible and firm accession strategy – one for each country – which would include a firm membership date and a conversion rate, backed up by credible policies.
 

evercloserunion

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I don't care whether he's a EU supporter or a BNP member. The man has joined the ranks of the irrational by suggesting it is possible to leave the euro. I'm still waiting for any of the 'leave-the-euro' crowd to explain how it could be done.
I think Munchau is suggesting that Schauble's proposal would amend the treaties to make this possible. I recognise that this is not possible now.

You should note that it is not Munchau who is suggesting that the Eurozone is preparing to expel anybody. Munchau is not commenting on the Eurozone or its current contemplations; he is only talking about one man's proposal for the future of the Eurozone.
 

seabhcan

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When I read the whole proposal in detail, the fog lifted – or maybe my confusion just reached a higher level. I realised that the EMF is just a smokescreen. The real bullet in his proposal is that countries could leave the eurozone without leaving the European Union. This is not about helping countries in trouble. This is about helping them to get out
If you think that explains how to leave the euro, no wonder you post such nonsense on this forum.
 

seabhcan

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I think Munchau is suggesting that Schauble's proposal would amend the treaties to make this possible. I recognise that this is not possible now.

You should note that it is not Munchau who is suggesting that the Eurozone is preparing to expel anybody. Munchau is not commenting on the Eurozone or its current contemplations; he is only talking about one man's proposal for the future of the Eurozone.
Making it legal won't make it possible. Its not practically possible. The legal situation is unimportant.
 

Clanrickard

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H Muchau is saying, on reading the full proposal he say that the EMU wasn't about helping countries out, it was about helping them to get out.?
The article doesn't say how this will be done. There are no specifics.
 

sondagefaux

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When I read the whole proposal in detail, the fog lifted – or maybe my confusion just reached a higher level. I realised that the EMF is just a smokescreen. The real bullet in his proposal is that countries could leave the eurozone without leaving the European Union. This is not about helping countries in trouble. This is about helping them to get out.
The Schäuble proposal as it stands would require a full-blown change in the European treaties – and nobody wants to go down that route right now. Some of his suggestions are unbelievably extreme, for example depriving countries with excessive deficits of their democratic voting rights, or withholding payments under the EU’s cohesion fund. There will be no majority for any of this, let alone the unanimity that such a change would require.
FT.com / Columnists / Wolfgang Munchau - Shrink the eurozone, or create a fiscal union
 

Clanrickard

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. Its not practically possible. .
Why not? Reintroduce the punt and bobs your uncle. Won't be painless granted but it is possible.
 

kerrynorth

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Funny how all p.ie's Euroluvvies were able to respond to this thread yet never dared to show their faces on the recent Intel thread (they of the six figures Yes to Lisbon campaign) on the likelihood of Intel exporting jobs from Ireland to Israel......funny that....
 

seabhcan

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Why not? Reintroduce the punt and bobs your uncle. Won't be painless granted but it is possible.
Businesses would refuse to use the punt. Banks would refuse to redominate loans into punt, and Unions would refuse to accept that their members be paid less via a punt introduction.

Banks would collapse overnight as savers offshored their currency.

Its not possible to do this.
 


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