EU's negotiating strategy re Brexit. 'Chapeau'

GDPR

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One thing I'm certain of is Britain's involvement with us was never for our benefit.
That's true, but in the case of Brexit the Law of Unintended Consequences applies to its possible effect upon Ireland, and particularly the border.

Perhaps there should be another referendum which refers particularly to the border as well as whether brexit should go ahead. The referendum will be for the whole of the UK, not just the six counties.

You never know, the referendum may (a) stop brexit (b) reunite the whole of Ireland :)
 


midlander12

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Sinn Fein's policy came from a time when they were out on a limb. Now that they are trying to steal Fianna Fail's clothes, they have to project an image of common sense. Nobody in Ireland in their right mind would vote for a party with a policy of taking the country out of the EU except for extremists on the far left and far right, and while clinically sane, those people are closer to nutters than the rest of us. Why would anyone want to make exporting arrangements to half of your existing market much more difficult? Ireland belongs to the best free trade cartel in the world and has done very well out of it over the last 44 years.
So are SF just 'projecting an image of common sense' or are they genuinely pro-EU now? I ask because to the best of my knowledge they have opposed all the European integration treaties, including the fiscal policy one which was only a few years ago. I know this is not the same as advocating withdrawal from the EU (a policy I presume they quietly dropped at some stage in the 1980's) but their change from Euroscepticism to the current stance has come as quite a surprise to many.
 

HarshBuzz

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So are SF just 'projecting an image of common sense' or are they genuinely pro-EU now? I ask because to the best of my knowledge they have opposed all the European integration treaties, including the fiscal policy one which was only a few years ago. I know this is not the same as advocating withdrawal from the EU (a policy I presume they quietly dropped at some stage in the 1980's) but their change from Euroscepticism to the current stance has come as quite a surprise to many.
That's like asking what SF's policy is towards their erstwhile allies in Syriza these days.

Never see many tweets about them anymore from the Shinners. Curious that....
 

midlander12

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That's like asking what SF's policy is towards their erstwhile allies in Syriza these days.

Never see many tweets about them anymore from the Shinners. Curious that....
They seem to be concentrating on more 'local' issues these days, such as the Irish Language Act. I suppose it's all the 'nationalism' that's left.
 

shiel

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Ah shiel, would you get over yourself for God's sake.

Brexit had nothing to do with Ireland, except in your fevered imagination. Stop cutting and pasting the same post 5,000 times and think for a change.
Look Brexit is an emotional statement by our former colonial masters that they are not satisfied to be just another one of nearly thirty democracies in an international organisation that values cooperation in matters of mutual interest.

The consequences of their voting for Brexit will be serious for Europe, for the UK and for this former colony.

The motivation was, therefore, contempt for fellow Europeans especially for this former colony.

You are perfectly entitled to disagree but it is my opinion that it is going to end very badly for all soon.

I hope I am wrong.
 

raetsel

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So are SF just 'projecting an image of common sense' or are they genuinely pro-EU now? I ask because to the best of my knowledge they have opposed all the European integration treaties, including the fiscal policy one which was only a few years ago. I know this is not the same as advocating withdrawal from the EU (a policy I presume they quietly dropped at some stage in the 1980's) but their change from Euroscepticism to the current stance has come as quite a surprise to many.
I cannot answer for Sinn Fein, but opposing further integration is hardly radical by any means. I am enthusiastically pro EU but am sceptical of the value of it myself. It should hardly come as a surprise to anyone that SF changed their policy considering that they are trying to move into the political mainstream and expand their support in a country where over 80% of the population are pro EU. They couldn't hope to change public opinion here because the vast majority of people know that on balance the EU has been very good for Ireland. The previous policy was idiotic.
 

Tribal

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The consequences of their voting for Brexit will be serious for Europe, for the UK and for this former colony.

The motivation was, therefore, contempt for fellow Europeans especially for this former colony.
On the first point I don't believe Brexit will be as bad for the EU as many think and although we will be most challenged, it must be remembered that since we joined the EEC, the UKs share of our export market has collapsed from over 80% to 12%.

I do believe all foreigners, including us with our special status, are going to face a rough ride in the UK in the coming years.
 
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raetsel

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They seem to be concentrating on more 'local' issues these days, such as the Irish Language Act. I suppose it's all the 'nationalism' that's left.
The Irish Language Act has acquired an amplified importance for Sinn Fein as the DUP have effectively reneged on a promise made in the St Andrew's agreement and the DUP's sectarian contempt for Irish has become intolerable. And it is not just Sinn Fein. The SDLP demand action as well.
Sinn Fein were actually no other choice after the DUP's Paul Givan upped the ante during the RHI row, by revoking a paltry 50K of Gaeltacht grant funding for children two days before Christmas last year, having earlier provided 200K funding for sectarian loyalist bands, many of whom openly lionise dead UVF and UDA terrorists.
I have no personal strong attachment for the Irish Language, but this issue has become a binding imperative now for the nationalist community becuase of the DUP's antics.
 

raetsel

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On the first point I don't believe Brexit will be as bad for the EU as many think and although we will be most challenged it must be remembered that since joining the EEC the UKs share of export market has collapsed from over 80% to 12%.

I do believe all foreigners, including us with our special status, are going to face a rough ride in the UK in the coming years.
Export market to the EU/Single Market? Have I understood that right. It is much greater than 12%. It was over 50% in 2015 according to this.
OEC - United Kingdom (GBR) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners
 

Voluntary

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May:
""But for us to grasp the great prize ahead of us, that contribution must fit with our shared aim: to help Britain make a success of Brexit and become that great global country we know we can be."


;Great prize ahead of us' hahahaha

They will get, but maybe a kinder surprise!
 

raetsel

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Look Brexit is an emotional statement by our former colonial masters that they are not satisfied to be just another one of nearly thirty democracies in an international organisation that values cooperation in matters of mutual interest.

The consequences of their voting for Brexit will be serious for Europe, for the UK and for this former colony.

The motivation was, therefore, contempt for fellow Europeans especially for this former colony.

You are perfectly entitled to disagree but it is my opinion that it is going to end very badly for all soon.

I hope I am wrong.
The average Brexit voter was motivated to vote for it because of immigration and what swung it more than anything was the £350M NHS lie. The immigration issue is not as one dimensional as it seems either. Parts of Britain are very, very crowded, as anyone who has driven on English roads in the last 15 years will tell you. Furthermore working class people blame wage stagnation on the influx of foreigners.
Many Irish people over there voted for it by the way. The idea that the British did it to **** over Ireland is a bit daft, frankly, though the DUP supported it partly to draw a clearer distiction between north and south. Of that I am convinced.
Why the Irish in the UK Should Vote Leave | HuffPost UK
 

Tribal

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shiel

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The average Brexit voter was motivated to vote for it because of immigration and what swung it more than anything was the £350M NHS lie. The immigration issue is not as one dimensional as it seems either. Parts of Britain are very, very crowded, as anyone who has driven on English roads in the last 15 years will tell you. Furthermore working class people blame wage stagnation on the influx of foreigners.
Many Irish people over there voted for it by the way. The idea that the British did it to **** over Ireland is a bit daft, frankly, though the DUP supported it partly to draw a clearer distiction between north and south. Of that I am convinced.
Why the Irish in the UK Should Vote Leave | HuffPost UK
REPEAT

The UK signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest with nearly thirty European democracies after centuries of imperial and totalitarian conflict.

They also signed the Good Friday Agreement with this country to build neighbourly relations after centuries of colonial exploitation.

In voting for Brexit, however, the UK has torn up both agreements.

In doing so they have declared economic war on their EU partners and especially on this country.

We know all about their ability to tear up agreements having suffered from that many times over the centuries.

Yet some people want to Ireland to join our former colonial masters in tearing up an agreement that is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world.
 

raetsel

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Sorry, poor grammar on my half.

Since joining the ECC, Ireland exports to the UK reduced by that amount.
Yeah that's near enough right.
 

raetsel

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REPEAT

The UK signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest with nearly thirty European democracies after centuries of imperial and totalitarian conflict.

They also signed the Good Friday Agreement with this country to build neighbourly relations after centuries of colonial exploitation.

In voting for Brexit, however, the UK has torn up both agreements.

In doing so they have declared economic war on their EU partners and especially on this country.

We know all about their ability to tear up agreements having suffered from that many times over the centuries.

Yet some people want to Ireland to join our former colonial masters in tearing up an agreement that is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world.
I agree, the last bit is lunacy but it isn't the case that they did it to spite the Irish. Their reasons were far more complex, although based upon lies.
 

CastleRay

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REPEAT

The UK signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest with nearly thirty European democracies after centuries of imperial and totalitarian conflict.

They also signed the Good Friday Agreement with this country to build neighbourly relations after centuries of colonial exploitation.

In voting for Brexit, however, the UK has torn up both agreements.

In doing so they have declared economic war on their EU partners and especially on this country.

We know all about their ability to tear up agreements having suffered from that many times over the centuries.

Yet some people want to Ireland to join our former colonial masters in tearing up an agreement that is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world.
Brexit does not tear up the GFA.
 

Tribal

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Brexit does not tear up the GFA.
The GFA was drafted with both the UK and Ireland being internal EU nations. Now one is going to be outside.

It can not be denied that the open economic zone and basis of law in EU membership was crucial in the architecture of the cross border institutions and the normalization of relations between the two nations.

The DUP surpassed the UUP by opposing the GFA and it's hard to argue that their support for brexit wasn't a renewed assault on the spirit of the peace agreement.

A hard border, even with its negative economic effects, doesn't impact the unionist community as much as the Irish community, so strategically they had a motive in weakening their opposition in Northern Ireland.
 

McTell

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//

Unreproved the EU has asserted that it decides the timetable, the sequence of issues, and formed the novel 'pay to talk' concept.//

Unbelievable 1., that May went along with that.

Unbelievable 2. that Blair is claiming that the UK can after all limit eu immigration (it can't).... "prove you have a job" - don't need to, I've got an EU passport, and I'm a tourist until I find a job.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/10/tony-blair-get-tough-on-immigration-to-stop-brexit

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...-control-immigration-without-brexit-1.3216212


Unbelievable 3 is Da Toimes -

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/eu-may-not-protect-ireland-when-it-comes-to-the-border-1.3214536

Brussels has said that the early proposals from London for a “frictionless” Border won’t work – they breach EU rules.

...finally copping-on a year later that the eu won't change its rules in our case.

The EU will inflexibly send us migrants forever on the grounds of "solidarity".

The EU will inflexibly impose new border checks south of the NI border on the grounds of "solidarity".
 


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