Euthanasia for the mentally ill

cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,347
Website
www.google.com
Let's assume that euthanasia in general is approved, this thread is about when ,mental illness is a factor

So I guess there are two angles here

(1) A mentally ill person wishing for euthanasia due to something other than their mental illness
(2) A mentally ill person wishing for euthanasia due to their mental illness

AP : Doctors clash over euthanasia for mentally ill
Aside from Belgium, euthanasia is also legal in Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. Only Belgium and the Netherlands allow it for people with mental illness. In most cases, euthanasia is performed on people with a fatal illness like cancer who have only weeks to live. ... "These patients are very desperate, stressed," she said. "They say things that are not always correct." ...Mental health experts say balancing the finality of euthanasia with the transient nature of many psychiatric illnesses is extraordinarily difficult.
Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers
"I wish there had been another way," said Adriana Geerts, who accompanied her sister to the euthanasia clinic despite her own misgivings.
"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
--Albert Camus

cyp
 


Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
54,617
I know a schizphrenic but while he sometimes does very annoying things I doubt that he would want to go down that road.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Let's assume that euthanasia in general is approved, this thread is about when ,mental illness is a factor

So I guess there are two angles here

(1) A mentally ill person wishing for euthanasia due to something other than their mental illness
(2) A mentally ill person wishing for euthanasia due to their mental illness

AP : Doctors clash over euthanasia for mentally ill


Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers


"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
--Albert Camus

cyp
I would say that in the case of (1), if the physical illness has the characteristics of the type of illness for which those who are not mentally ill opt for euthanasia, then in those circumstances it should be permitted for those who are mentally ill.
In the case of (2), I simply don't know.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

milipod

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
7,735
Let's assume that euthanasia in general is approved, this thread is about when ,mental illness is a factor

So I guess there are two angles here

(1) A mentally ill person wishing for euthanasia due to something other than their mental illness
(2) A mentally ill person wishing for euthanasia due to their mental illness

AP : Doctors clash over euthanasia for mentally ill


Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers


"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
--Albert Camus

cyp
P.ie would close down overnight.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,474

Catalpast

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
25,560
The Labour Party could greatly benefit from such a Proposal

- it would be a natural follow on from their wholehearted support for Abortion on Demand

- and revolve their membership Crises.....:cool:
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,474
The Labour Party could greatly benefit from such a Proposal

- it would be a natural follow on from their wholehearted support for Abortion on Demand

- and revolve their membership Crises.....:cool:

Would Mickey Dee be the first to go?
 

Kilbarry

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,187
Let's assume that euthanasia in general is approved, this thread is about when ,mental illness is a factor .......

...Aside from Belgium, euthanasia is also legal in Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. Only Belgium and the Netherlands allow it for people with mental illness. In most cases, euthanasia is performed on people with a fatal illness like cancer who have only weeks to live. ... "These patients are very desperate, stressed," she said. "They say things that are not always correct." ...Mental health experts say balancing the finality of euthanasia with the transient nature of many psychiatric illnesses is extraordinarily difficult. ..........

Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
--Albert Camus

cyp
"Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers"

On the contrary the Dutch have found a very easy answer. Several years ago there was a landmark criminal trial in The Netherlands of a doctor who assisted a DEPRESSED woman to commit suicide. She was not suffering physical pain - which as the only LEGAL justification at the time but she was 80 years old, all her family and friends were dead and she saw no reason to go on living. So the doctor euthanized her - in open defiance of the existing law.

No problem for the jury - they acquitted the doctor anyway and the Dutch then changed the law.

These so-called ethical dilemmas are easier to solve than you would think!
 

cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,347
Website
www.google.com
Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers

On the contrary the Dutch have found a very easy answer. Several years ago there was a landmark criminal trial in The Netherlands of a doctor who assisted a DEPRESSED woman to commit suicide. She was not suffering physical pain - which as the only LEGAL justification at the time but she was 80 years old, all her family and friends were dead and she saw no reason to go on living. So the doctor euthanized her - in open defiance of the existing law.

No problem for the jury - they acquitted the doctor anyway and the Dutch then changed the law.

These so-called ethical dilemmas are easier to solve than you would think!
Whoosh

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
--Albert Camus

cyp

cyp
 

Kilbarry

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,187
REAL vs Fake Liberalism

"Dealing with these issues is harrowing, there are no easy answers"

On the contrary the Dutch have found a very easy answer. Several years ago there was a landmark criminal trial in The Netherlands of a doctor who assisted a DEPRESSED woman to commit suicide. She was not suffering physical pain - which as the only LEGAL justification at the time but she was 80 years old, all her family and friends were dead and she saw no reason to go on living. So the doctor euthanized her - in open defiance of the existing law.

No problem for the jury - they acquitted the doctor anyway and the Dutch then changed the law.

These so-called ethical dilemmas are easier to solve than you would think!
Mind you I recall reading an interview with a Dutch doctor who had supported the ORIGINAL euthanasia law - which was all about unbearable physical pain, approaching death etc and was dismayed by the jury's failure to uphold the law. He said that it appeared to him that all the barriers were now down.

That doctor represents a certain minority tendency among liberals - the few who fail to move with the times. Just because a liberal supported some ground-breaking policy initiative decades ago, doesn't mean he can rest on his laurels. TRUE progressives must always keep on pressing the boundaries of what society regards as acceptable!
 

Karloff

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
6,952
There should be a route available for assisted suicide for nearly anyone but more difficult for the mentally ill than those with progressive incurable diseases.

It should never be portrayed as a good thing.

Put the issue before a council of experts in palliative care, terminal diseases, psychiatry (but limit or bar the religious input) and let them make a recommendation. (Although given the recommendations of some experts in psychiatry on abortion i was more hesistant to add this last paragraph).
 

Karloff

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
6,952
It should not be criminalised anyway to assist a suicide provided overwhelming evidence to support the reasoning behind it and especially to prove beyond any possible doubt the consent of the person killed and other factors.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
100 years after end of Nazism the idea that can abort anybody less than perfect, euthanise the old and infirm and decide who lives and dies will be where West is.

Nazi's introduced the ideas of Sub Human, Humanity just carries it on under various guises and calls it freedom.
 

mr_anderson

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
9,780
100 years after end of Nazism the idea that can abort anybody less than perfect, euthanise the old and infirm and decide who lives and dies will be where West is.

Nazi's introduced the ideas of Sub Human, Humanity just carries it on under various guises and calls it freedom.

What if I want to be euthanised ?
If I'm in excruciating pain from an incurable illness, is it nazi of you to prevent me from choosing to end my life ?
 

redhead

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
6,663
Two distinct questions, not two angles, and ones that are fraught with complex ideas that cannot be whittled down to a philosophical binary.

In the first instance, in your scenario, you are implying a penalty exists for those suffering from a mental illness who are also suffering from a physical illness. In addition, it doesn't specify the nature of the mental illness, the severity of it, or whether or not it constitutes an impairment of judgement so severe that the person cannot be considered capable of making that decision. That's before you get to the physical illness, the likely trajectory of it and whether or not the mental illness has arisen as a result of it.

To put it bluntly, if you were in a wheelchair and suffering from a degenerative disease, the chances of you being depressed are pretty high. If you have been diagnosed with depression on top of that should you be prohibited from pursuing euthanasia because you're not as chirpy as the guy in the wheelchair next to you who has to blink to communicate?

Or what about the person with schizophrenia who has been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and is shortly going to die a very painful death? Should that prevent them from choosing an option available to a mentally healthy person in the same situation who in reality probably has impaired judgement as a result of their diagnosis and could possibly be suffering from a transient depression and conceivably of less sound mind at the time then the schizophrenic who is managing with medication?

Presumably, all of these possibilities and many more are already taken into account in countries where euthanasia is permitted and not simply granted on demand.

In the second scenario, the situation is even more complex and the article you link to highlights the problems with the relatively small number of cases where it has occurred and the belief that insufficient checks and balances have been put in place to deal with it. On reading it, the answer to your question would appear to be no, it definitely should not be an option.

Reducing euthanasia to a given to engage in a bout of philosophical navel gazing belittles the difficult choice made by those facing a painful and prolonged death seeking a dignified end.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,651
100 years after end of Nazism the idea that can abort anybody less than perfect, euthanise the old and infirm and decide who lives and dies will be where West is.

Nazi's introduced the ideas of Sub Human, Humanity just carries it on under various guises and calls it freedom.
Yes.
The nazi,s used the term "lives not worth living" and then murdered about 5,000 crippled and disabled German children around 1939.

That,s what,s coming down the road with the culture of death being promoted by the pro-abortion lobby .


https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005200
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
29,150
Twitter
No
Euthenasia. I thought that was what wars were for. After all if one counts up the casualties of war in our lifetime and our parents' generation there are many millions who were euthanised for a principle.

If one wishes to eliminate euthenasia then I would respectfully suggest that we need to eliminate war.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top