Everybody paid for AIB Bailout, only the well-off can buy AIB shares

ShoutingIsLeadership

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€10,000 minimum to buy shares in the great AIB flotation - Independent.ie

The public paid for the AIB bailout, its non-tracker customers carried an extra burden (in the form of up to tens of thousands in over the top mortgage interest rate costs).

However, when the State starts selling some shares in AIB, retail investors will need to stump up a minimum of ten thousand euros, to get a piece of any potential upside.

Retail investors will also have to use a registered stockbroker.

Apparently, Mick Noonan and Department of Finance want to protect people from themselves. Strange that Mick Noonan and co. never felt the need to dictate that variable interest rates not go above a certain level, in order to protect people.


Perhaps Mick Noonan could have thrown a few shares the way of the trapped customers who have been screwed over, to return this bank to profitability, thus making it ready to be sold.
 


fat finger

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€10,000 minimum to buy shares in the great AIB flotation - Independent.ie

The public paid for the AIB bailout, its non-tracker customers carried an extra burden (in the form of up to tens of thousands in over the top mortgage interest rate costs).

However, when the State starts selling some shares in AIB, retail investors will need to stump up a minimum of ten thousand euros, to get a piece of any potential upside.

Retail investors will also have to use a registered stockbroker.

Apparently, Mick Noonan and Department of Finance want to protect people from themselves. Strange that Mick Noonan and co. never felt the need to dictate that variable interest rates not go above a certain level, in order to protect people.


Perhaps Mick Noonan could have thrown a few shares the way of the trapped customers who have been screwed over, to return this bank to profitability, thus making it ready to be sold.

Yiz all partied.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Years ago I posted here that how the bank "investments" were realised would tell a lot about FG and it's depressing to see how my cynicism has been well founded.

So far we've seen US investors making €500m from a deal on Bank of Ireland that could have been almost as easily recovered by the state if the €1m a year guys in Nama had been worth their salaries.

This is sickening - another bung to the establishment...must be a client of a stock broker"...FFS lads and lassies, these are the scumbags who picked on the carcass and sold off the state's jewels AFTER we paid for them.

It seems FG can't conceive any wheeze that doesn't needlessly enrich the establishment
 
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gleeful

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You know that sellimg AIB is about paying back the public who funded the bailout, right?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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The state doesn't have a great track record in realising the actual value of anything, to be honest.

Telecom Eireann IPO was a farce, NAMA has been a farce.

There's a very real risk here - given FG's propensity for dramatic failure to secure VFM for the tax payer - that shares are sold at an "attractive" rate (.i.e., too low) and appreciate very quickly in the hands of the people and corporations with €10k+ to invest (i.e., FG supporters).

Noonan has been happy to give tax payers the two finger salute on Apple tax, Cerebrus, vulture funds with charity status, etc., AND he's not going to be running again so won't face any consequences, so my bet would be on a low float value and a significant ROI in subsequent 12 months.
 
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automaticforthepeople

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Lets look at privitisation another way. Thatcher had a view that it was an ideological idea to create a share owning democracy and look at what happened. Thousands of people queued up overnight to apply to buy shares which they promptly sold on the day of flotation and made a small fortune.

How many of these shareholders that bought 30 years ago still are shareholders? I'd say there aren't too many.
If you look at what happened here in Greencore, where the PD's flogged it off, you could buy a few hundred shares for about roughly 90p a share at the launch.
A threshold investment was required for eircom also and punters took out loans to buy shares that tanked. When the shares collapsed and the loans were called in, there were a lot of angry shareholders led by Shane Ross who railed against the board and particularly Dick Spring but who were happy to give Mary O'Rourke a fools pardon. In fact the government asked for cheques to be paid before they announced the share price. sp punters were buying a pig in a poke from day one.

The share price of AIB is a small fraction of what Greencore launched at. To buy a similar amount of shares it'd hardly cost €50. Is someone seriously going to buy a few hundred AIB shares? At least we know the current share price of AIB.

I'm sure that Shane Ross will ensure in cabinet that AIB's privitisation will be a runaway success!
 

Casablanca

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Buying shares is a risky business, of its very nature. The Eircom and Aer Lingus flotations as well as any given day watching the stock markets show this. People like Warren Buffett are the exceptions rather then rule.
I'm not certain that putting a threshold on the potential purchase is a bad idea for two reasons:

1. It prevents a repeat of the Eircom situation where people who knew nothing about investing bought in, on the then governments advice, and lost heavily.

2. The public has already bought into, through state borrowings, AIB. Imagine a situation where the public, in large numbers, lost heavily, buying it a second time?
 
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an innocent abroad

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RTE newsline now. "Something odd is happening to the amount of money the government collects to run the country"

No sxxt tonto...
 

Gin Soaked

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Casablanca makes an excellent point.

I'd add: income tax comes disproportionately from the wealthier PAYE sector.

And bank shares being pursued by "little people" was a disaster the last time. Lots of pensioners were wiped out.

All things considered, best that those who can't bear the risk stay clear.

I'd be amazed if AIB's floatation is a success.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Buying shares is a risky business, of its very nature. The Eircom and Aer Lingus flotations as well as any given day watching the stock markets show this. People like Warren Buffett are the exceptions rather then rule.
I'm not certain that putting a threshold on the potential purchase is a bad idea for two reasons:

1. It prevents a repeat of the Eircom situation where people who knew nothing about investing bought in, on the then governments advice, and lost heavily.

2. The public has already bought into, through state borrowings, AIB. Imagine a situation where the public, in large numbers, lost heavily, buying it a second time?

That might all make sense, but adults should be allowed to make their own decisions.

As I said, nobody cared about the thousands screwed out of variable rate mortgage holders, by AIB.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Casablanca makes an excellent point.

I'd add: income tax comes disproportionately from the wealthier PAYE sector.

And bank shares being pursued by "little people" was a disaster the last time. Lots of pensioners were wiped out.

All things considered, best that those who can't bear the risk stay clear.

I'd be amazed if AIB's floatation is a success.

Dandy. What about allowing adults to choose how to spend their money?
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Casablanca makes an excellent point.

I'd add: income tax comes disproportionately from the wealthier PAYE sector.

And bank shares being pursued by "little people" was a disaster the last time. Lots of pensioners were wiped out.

All things considered, best that those who can't bear the risk stay clear.

I'd be amazed if AIB's floatation is a success.

By the way, have you considered that somebody who has 10k in savings, might want to punt 2k on these, but this threshold might encourage them to punt the whole lot?
 

Casablanca

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That might all make sense, but adults should be allowed to make their own decisions.

As I said, nobody cared about the thousands screwed out of variable rate mortgage holders, by AIB.

I agree to a point. An adult can invest their savings/or borrow 10k if they so choose. Surely to have learned something from the grief caused by Eircom/AIB collapse and the variable rate mess is a good thing? A poster holding an opposing view to yours might well have written an OP lamenting the government lack of concern in repeating those errors if a free-for-all were encouraged.
 

Casablanca

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By the way, have you considered that somebody who has 10k in savings, might want to punt 2k on these, but this threshold might encourage them to punt the whole lot?
I'd imagine, (but might be wrong), that a potential investor having weighed up the options and informing themselves of the risks and with the aim of a long term return, could buy 2k worth of shares on the open market after the flotation.
 

Northsideman

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You know that sellimg AIB is about paying back the public who funded the bailout, right?
Yeah? So what will the funds be used for? TD's wage increases, funding bloodly useless quangos, recognising travellers as more equal than the rest of us, free legal aid for professional and habitual criminals, etc. etc. bejayus thanks for bringing that to my attention.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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I agree to a point. An adult can invest their savings/or borrow 10k if they so choose. Surely to have learned something from the grief caused by Eircom/AIB collapse and the variable rate mess is a good thing? A poster holding an opposing view to yours might well have written an OP lamenting the government lack of concern in repeating those errors if a free-for-all were encouraged.


I am not advocating a free for all. And I might believe that Noonan cared about the public, if he hadn't presided over the screwing of AIB mortgage holders for years, because he argued that it was not for him to interfere.

This is about Noonan trying to avoid political fallout for him and FG. That his party's voters typically might be more likely to have 10k,is a happy coincidence, of course.
 


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